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Tell HN: Cloudflare is blocking Pale Moon and other non-mainstream browsers

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Re: Tell HN: Cloudflare is blocking Pale Moon and other non-mainstream browsers

#471

Post by azemetre »

LeifCarrotson wrote: post #401
nikkwong wrote: post #243

Yesterday I was attempting to buy a product on a small retailer's website—as soon as I hit the "add to cart" button I got a message from Cloudflare: "Sorry, you have been blocked". My only recourse was to message the owner of the domain asking them to unblock me. Of course, I didn't, and decided to buy the product elsewhere. I wasn't doing anything suspicious.. using Arc on a M1 MBP; normal browsing habits. Not sure…

> I would be pretty upset if I implemented Cloudflare and it started to inadvertently hurt my sales figures. The problem is that all these Cloudflare forensics-based throttling and blocking efforts don't hurt sales figures. The number of legitimate users running Arc is a rounding error. Arc browser users often come to Cloudflare without third-party tracking and without cookies, which is weird and therefore suspicious…

Something tells me that if you asked the store owner that the poster tried to give money to, they'd be furious at cloudflare for stopping the transaction.

Re: Tell HN: Cloudflare is blocking Pale Moon and other non-mainstream browsers

#472

Post by NoMoreNicksLeft »

TheRealPomax wrote: post #445
LeifCarrotson wrote: post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would be pretty upset if I implemented Cloudflare and it started to inadvertently hurt my sales figures. The problem is that all these Cloudflare forensics-based throttling and blocking efforts don't hurt sales figures. The number of legitimate users running Arc is a rounding error. Arc browser users often come to Cloudflare without third-party tracking and without cookies, which is weird and therefore suspicious…

The number of legitimate users on "not chrome, edge, safari, or firefox" is about 10% of the browser market. I don't know about you, but if I'm running a shop, and the whole point of my website is to make sales, but my front door is preventing 10% of those sales? That door is getting replaced.

>That door is getting replaced.

Sure. If there was another place to buy a better door at. But if that door manufacturer's the only one that makes doors, if the door installer and door technicians all tell you that they can't or won't make another door for you, then you just deal. Maybe crank up the prices a bit to try to mitigate your 10% shortfalls.

The place where a business looks at that problem and sees money being left on the table that it can't live without and that it has no other way of making up for... that is a very narrow stretch, and only very marginal businesses live there.

Re: Tell HN: Cloudflare is blocking Pale Moon and other non-mainstream browsers

#473

Post by Aldo_MX »

TheRealPomax wrote: post #445
LeifCarrotson wrote: post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would be pretty upset if I implemented Cloudflare and it started to inadvertently hurt my sales figures. The problem is that all these Cloudflare forensics-based throttling and blocking efforts don't hurt sales figures. The number of legitimate users running Arc is a rounding error. Arc browser users often come to Cloudflare without third-party tracking and without cookies, which is weird and therefore suspicious…

The number of legitimate users on "not chrome, edge, safari, or firefox" is about 10% of the browser market. I don't know about you, but if I'm running a shop, and the whole point of my website is to make sales, but my front door is preventing 10% of those sales? That door is getting replaced.

Then you get burglars in your shop instead of legitimate customers.

User Agents look the way they do because this is a recurring issue.

A browser without network effects gets blocked, they look for a way to bypass the blocking, then they become mainstream and now the de-facto UA is larger than before.

Re: Tell HN: Cloudflare is blocking Pale Moon and other non-mainstream browsers

#474

Post by fsckboy »

Adjacent topic: does anybody (US) use Chase Bank from linux? it won't let me use Chromium* or Brave (it used to; it doesn't tell me I can't, it just won't send me TFA confirmation codes to my phone or "recognize" when I log into the phone app. Phone app works, but doesn't have all the features of the web portal. I can use it from macbook but I prefer linux.

*I have not tried downloading Google Chrome or IE or Edge if that still exists for linux

Re: Tell HN: Cloudflare is blocking Pale Moon and other non-mainstream browsers

#475

Post by handoflixue »

agoodusername63 wrote: post #457
TheRealPomax wrote: post #445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The number of legitimate users on "not chrome, edge, safari, or firefox" is about 10% of the browser market. I don't know about you, but if I'm running a shop, and the whole point of my website is to make sales, but my front door is preventing 10% of those sales? That door is getting replaced.

Why would you assume that the 10% of non standard browsers are going to buy anything? Demographic is important here. If I was running a shop that sold software for Linux users, sure. If I'm running a store that sells pretty much anything else? I'm not caring.

Why would you expect people using non-standard browsers don't buy things? Presumably they still eat food, wear clothing, and enjoy hobbies.

I'd think that a non-standard browser also strongly suggests that they're a financially-comfortable middle-class individual, and quite possibly a whale with FAANG income.

Re: Tell HN: Cloudflare is blocking Pale Moon and other non-mainstream browsers

#476

Post by handoflixue »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #461
TheRealPomax wrote: post #445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The number of legitimate users on "not chrome, edge, safari, or firefox" is about 10% of the browser market. I don't know about you, but if I'm running a shop, and the whole point of my website is to make sales, but my front door is preventing 10% of those sales? That door is getting replaced.

You don't think the people actually running the shops, whose income depends on the shop, have thought of that and thus there exists a downside that more than offsets the upside?

The people running the shops aren't the people making the decision - Cloudflare is. The shop's only real decision is "use Cloudflare" or "die to all the attacks Cloudflare exists to prevent"

Re: Tell HN: Cloudflare is blocking Pale Moon and other non-mainstream browsers

#477

Post by 1shooner »

Analemma_ wrote: post #436
gosub100 wrote: post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I can find you literally hundreds of posts from people insisting that ADA is nothing but a small-business-killing shakedown, that it's makework for lawyers, that it's doing nothing to help the disabled, and that it's just as bad if not worse than DEI. What makes your claim better than theirs?

>it's doing nothing to help the disabled

I make you a deal: Instead of hundreds of posts from random people, find me just 50 posts from disabled people that agree with this.

Re: Tell HN: Cloudflare is blocking Pale Moon and other non-mainstream browsers

#478

Post by fsckboy »

pc86 wrote: post #446
dragontamer wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if they did violate the ADA, do you seriously expect this administration's anti-DEI Department of Justice to pursue legal action?

Yes because accessibility and DEI are different despite partisans' attempts to make "DEIA" a real thing.

I'm not expert on this, but it appears that the Dept of Justice rolls DEI and A into one DEIA, which makes some sort of sense since any litigation would be similar. Not sure about other federal agencies

https://www.justice.gov/archives/jmd/diversity-equity-inclus...

Re: Tell HN: Cloudflare is blocking Pale Moon and other non-mainstream browsers

#479

Post by fsckboy »

lcnPylGDnU4H9OF wrote: post #466
Analemma_ wrote: post #436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can find you literally hundreds of posts from people insisting that ADA is nothing but a small-business-killing shakedown, that it's makework for lawyers, that it's doing nothing to help the disabled, and that it's just as bad if not worse than DEI. What makes your claim better than theirs?

> What makes your claim better than theirs? Well, for starters it's not so absolute: > it's doing nothing to help the disabled It's obviously doing something for the disabled. Reserved disabled parking spots and wheelchair-accessible building entrances are requirements of the ADA. It seems reasonable to think it "improves people's lives". A whole bunch of contrary opinions are not necessarily reasons for disagreement…

I've no problem with the govt making sure that disabled people get accommodation so they can participate in civic life. I do have a problem with the govt requiring private individuals to pay for it, "handle the load", etc. even engaged in public accommodation: because it's obvious that a 20,000 sq ft publicly trade Delaware class C corp retailer has room for ramps and generous allocations of space around swinging doors, bathrooms etc. But if I rent a 500 sq foot postage stamp shop in NYC to open my dream counter service juice store which is a step up from the sidewalk, it's just too much of a burden for a new business of which 9 out of 10 fail anyway. You think juice store owners have anything against disabled people? they don't.

We all need to pay for it, not pass feel good legislation that shoves it down the throats of sole proprieter LLCs.

Re: Tell HN: Cloudflare is blocking Pale Moon and other non-mainstream browsers

#480

Post by Yeul »

dragontamer wrote: post #454
gosub100 wrote: post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

You seriously think this administration gives a care about the disabled? They're already firing accessibility people in the government. https://www.aclu.org/news/racial-justice/trumps-executive-or... Right there in the executive orders. They're literally rolling back accessibility and making this a policy. Read the EO yourself. https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/01/endi...

[flagged]
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