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Apple will soon receive 'made in America' chips from TSMC's Arizona fab

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Re: Apple will soon receive 'made in America' chips from TSMC's Arizona fab

#471

Post by brickfaced »

krapp wrote: post #323
brickfaced wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US didn't win World War 2, break the sound barrier, or put a man on the Moon only or primarily due to immigrant workers. We scoured the country's public school system for the sharpest young minds, sent them to institutions of higher learning with rigorous curricula, and found them positions in industry, government, or the military which made good use of their talent. Fetishizing the "nation of immigrants" narrati…

Unless your ancestors crossed the Bering Strait ten thousand years ago, calling yourself "native born" doesn't mean a thing.

You would never apply this reductive, solipsistic lens to any non-white ethnicity or culture and I think you know it

Re: Apple will soon receive 'made in America' chips from TSMC's Arizona fab

#472

Post by brickfaced »

mcphage wrote: post #455
brickfaced wrote: post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you think a nation is? Is it a sports team or economic zone that hands out name tags to whoever steps off the boat with the right attitude? Or is it a specific group of people in a specific place with a shared language, lineage, culture, history, faith, and common destiny? I submit to you that it's the latter, and no empire nor state organized as the former can endure.

> Or is it a specific group of people in a specific place with a shared language, lineage, culture, history, faith, and common destiny? I'm American, so I've never lived in this kind of nation. > no empire nor state organized as the former can endure. Looking at many of the longer-lived nations and empires of the past—having a shared language, lineage, culture, history, faith, common destiny? They had none of those.…

>I'm American, so I've never lived in this kind of nation.

"What is water?", said the fish

Re: Apple will soon receive 'made in America' chips from TSMC's Arizona fab

#473

Post by johnnyanmac »

PittleyDunkin wrote: post #459
johnnyanmac wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have the metaphor backwards. Where do you go if you're a talented American and your own country continually does not want to pay for your talent? It's the brain drain out of the US to worry about, not the influx of immigration.

> Where do you go if you're a talented American and your own country continually does not want to pay for your talent? China is the only country that pays even remotely competitively. Yes, even including all the nice benefits of living in a european welfare state, yes including the other anglo colonies.

Makes sense, it's just basic economy to pay for spent and get it. Something the US is continually giving up.

Still, their culture basically does make it so certain types of people simply can't exist there. And I hear there's a healthy dose of racism as well. Nothing unique to China, sadly.

Re: Apple will soon receive 'made in America' chips from TSMC's Arizona fab

#474

Post by disapointed »

I'm not interested what Apple says. What they do in FB is so many posts they posting what ever they like even posts of almost naked women and girls, looks like prostitution in FB. They are saying is their right to do that and their policy. It is disgusting thing in my point of view. Used to be postings of my friends now is totally disaster.

Re: Apple will soon receive 'made in America' chips from TSMC's Arizona fab

#475

Post by intull »

programmertote wrote: post #185
digdigdag wrote: post #35

- Over 50% of the workers flew in from Taiwan to work on this plant and make these chips. - The chips still need to fly back to Taiwan to be packaged as there are no facilities here with such a capability. Made in america is a hard sell. But at least showing the glaring STEM field gap in the U.S. is a start to finally addressing the brain drain.

The 'brain drain' (as you refer to it) stems from intelligent/motivated grads in the US for the last two decades (at least) pursuing more lucrative fields like finance and adtech (re: Google, Facebook). Or some pursue management route (attending big MBA schools and switching to management roles where they climb corporate ladder). In other words, there are not a lot of college/grad students who want to pursue traditio…

Really appreciate this comment and perspective! In the larger context of immigration and brain drain in other countries, how the US also has one, but of a different kind. Ultimately, it's a loss of potential. I'd somewhat disagree with the directionality of the correlative/causal relation, though. But what can be said is that the US also experiences a knowledge drain towards plainly lucrative jobs. I'd wager that it was/is a cyclical effect that just worsened over the decades and that neither engineers moving to fintech nor low-paying engineering jobs were/are the sole reason.

Re: Apple will soon receive 'made in America' chips from TSMC's Arizona fab

#476

Post by ElevenLathe »

DennisP wrote: post #189
whimsicalism wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Ukrainian government is very much still extant

Just as the Taiwan government could continue to be, despite invasion from China.

In fact the RoC government is already in exile in Taiwan, though it seems unlikely that they would find another piece of real estate if they lost that.

Re: Apple will soon receive 'made in America' chips from TSMC's Arizona fab

#478

Post by rockostrich »

programmertote wrote: post #185
digdigdag wrote: post #35

- Over 50% of the workers flew in from Taiwan to work on this plant and make these chips. - The chips still need to fly back to Taiwan to be packaged as there are no facilities here with such a capability. Made in america is a hard sell. But at least showing the glaring STEM field gap in the U.S. is a start to finally addressing the brain drain.

The 'brain drain' (as you refer to it) stems from intelligent/motivated grads in the US for the last two decades (at least) pursuing more lucrative fields like finance and adtech (re: Google, Facebook). Or some pursue management route (attending big MBA schools and switching to management roles where they climb corporate ladder). In other words, there are not a lot of college/grad students who want to pursue traditio…

Hit the nail on the head. I went to the College of Nanoscale Science and Engineering in Albany for a master's in "nanoscale engineering" which essentially boiled down to a master's in being a fab line manager. I finished the degree since it was only a 3 semester program and I was getting paid for research work, but almost immediately after chatting with alumns that went to go work at IBM/Intel/etc it was pretty clear that software engineering was a much more lucrative and less stressful career.

Re: Apple will soon receive 'made in America' chips from TSMC's Arizona fab

#479

Post by yamazakiwi »

d3nj4l wrote: post #171
codazoda wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would they require these hours? In the U.S. I think they would need to pay time and a half for anything north of 40-hours. Seems like it would be cheaper to hire more workers and not force the overtime. Then they might be able to increase the salary some. Everyone wins except the people who are willing to sacrifice the time for time and a half pay.

AIUI almost all salaried employees are exempt from overtime pay in the US.

Sometimes overtime bonuses get used as an incentive for salaried employees to work more but I guess it's more a bonus than overtime pay.

Re: Apple will soon receive 'made in America' chips from TSMC's Arizona fab

#480

Post by nateglims »

whamlastxmas wrote: post #457
nateglims wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No actually, that's about the opportunity cost of war. There's a left-wing argument I frequently see that the US finds wars to increase profitability but I'm talking about the propping up of firms to keep the industrial capacity ready. It is not the most productive use of capital, but it is productive.

Ready for what? War with China or Russia? Do you really think multibillion dollar aircraft carriers are what would win that war?

Ready for whatever the pentagon wants.
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