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NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

congestion-pricing-tracker.com

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Re: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

#471

Post by [deleted] »

tekla wrote: post #469
jakelazaroff wrote: post #458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The congestion relief zone is probably one of the single densest transit zones on the planet. Rideshares and cabs are definitely useful for filling in the gaps in the boroughs, but you basically never need one in downtown Manhattan.

You're forgetting that the transit zones themselves are not only affected, the main BRIDGES are also affected. So even if you're not driving in downtown Manhattan, you will still pay the cost to enter the city through the normal entrances ``` Manhattan's Congestion Relief Zone starts at 60th Street and heads south to include the Lincoln, Holland and Hugh L. Carey tunnels on the Hudson River side, and the Queensboro B…

[deleted]

Re: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

#472

Post by timr »

steveBK123 wrote: post #349
gregshap wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The uber/taxi fee is charged per ride, whereas private passenger cars pay once per day. Seems like a reasonable tradeoff.

Private passenger car driver is paying 12x Taxi toll / 6x Uber toll. Taxi/Uber toll is passed directly onto he rider. Why should it be cheaper to be chauffeured? Also your average Taxi may not even cross into the CPZ 12x per day, so unclear we are making it up on volume either.

> Why should it be cheaper to be chauffeured?

It isn't. It's vastly more expensive to ride in a taxi when you include the fare.

Re: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

#473

Post by [deleted] »

tekla wrote: post #469
jakelazaroff wrote: post #458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The congestion relief zone is probably one of the single densest transit zones on the planet. Rideshares and cabs are definitely useful for filling in the gaps in the boroughs, but you basically never need one in downtown Manhattan.

You're forgetting that the transit zones themselves are not only affected, the main BRIDGES are also affected. So even if you're not driving in downtown Manhattan, you will still pay the cost to enter the city through the normal entrances ``` Manhattan's Congestion Relief Zone starts at 60th Street and heads south to include the Lincoln, Holland and Hugh L. Carey tunnels on the Hudson River side, and the Queensboro B…

[deleted]

Re: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

#474

Post by whimsicalism »

potato3732842 wrote: post #340
whimsicalism wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what unintended consequences?

Nothing special. Slight increases in minor accidents and near misses, some minority of which will involve pedestrians or road rage violence Basically the same downsides as anything else that changes the speed via rule or enforcement rather than changing the conditions of the road (e.g. "traffic calming").

i fail to see how adding cameras and an additional penalty will lead to any of those things

Re: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

#475

Post by [deleted] »

steveBK123 wrote: post #296

I think the biggest thing CP is going to do in NYC is end toll shopping. There were previously some pretty obvious arbs available to people trying to get off LI. The biggest policy failure of CP though to me is that they left taxi/uber relatively unscathed. Often the majority of traffic is taxi/uber, so make the surcharge on them a fraction of what individual drivers pay is kind of nonsensical. Are we trying to minim…

[deleted]

Re: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

#476

Post by supernova87a »

rtkwe wrote: post #372
supernova87a wrote: post #51

What I am interested to know but cannot find is: Are there are cameras inside the zone tracking cars to bill them if you are already in the zone, or if cameras only track entry to the zone? (i.e. cameras only on the border). If someone happens to evade the cameras, do they catch them eventually just by traveling within the zone? I believe London for example has internal zone cameras. The purpose being, first of all,…

The number of people who entirely live and work and drive inside the zone is going to be vanishingly small in comparison to the people who transit the zone border so I'm not sure it's going to be that big of a deal.

I just wonder why they choose not to enforce this aspect of it when it can be a significant population (in a statistical sense) of the car traffic as well as revenue. Manhattan inside the highways is a big place.

Maybe it's the cost of the cameras to be installed.

Re: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

#477

Post by asdff »

polon wrote: post #341
occz wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can already extrapolate from the results from other cities who have implemented the policy, where it has been wildly successful at reducing congestion.

So far, none of the data provided by the linked site would suggest Manhattan will see a reduction in transportation times. This is with the Monday snow however, which I'd imagine caused delays by itself. I will say, being in Manhattan, their seems to be less traffic on the road. I wonder if Google Maps traffic data is using a rolling average of ~7 days or something

Google maps traffic data is live

Re: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

#478

Post by asdff »

CPLX wrote: post #460
nothrabannosir wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean… yeah; I think we agree there. That’s kinda my point: people here whom I know to claim New York City is the greatest city in the world don’t actually know a lot about the world.

I've literally been to 80+ countries and have spent time in every U.S. city of significant size. If you can't look at the world and figure out the obvious fact that New York is the greatest and most significant city that has existed since we climbed down out of the trees I'm not sure what's going to convince you.

Ehh not the best weather and they haven’t invented the trash can or dumpster yet. You can get good food everywhere these days. And as the years go by I am less and less interested in drinking till 4:30 am especially at todays bar prices.

Re: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

#479

Post by timr »

Spooky23 wrote: post #380
steveBK123 wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And further, if I am already paying $50 fare to take an Uber, a $1.50 toll is not deterring me or reducing my usage at all. It is less than the rounding error on the tip I give the driver. I probably won't even notice it amongst the 5 line items of fees, taxes, surcharges, etc on the digital receipt.

This is where the dogma gets in the way of reality. Uber and cabs are the glue that fills the gaps that public transit has left unfilled for decades. The policy goal is to reduce congestion by discouraging personal vehicles in the zone and generate revenue for transportation as a whole, not to turn the city into a pedestrian park. The state took an approach that does that without nuking the city. Based on the fact th…

Moreover, the parent misses the forest for the trees: yeah, the congestion fee is lower than the fare, but the fare is vastly more expensive than driving a car.

The current pricing model encourages resource sharing (this was true before congestion pricing as well), and the choice of whether or not you take a car or a cab is a function of the amortized cost of use per unit time. So yeah, just in terms of congestion fee it's a little bit cheaper to take an Uber for a single trip, but if you ride around in an Uber all day long, it's way, way less cost efficient than driving your own car.

Re: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

#480

Post by whimsicalism »

JackFr wrote: post #168
whimsicalism wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what unintended consequences?

The real unintended consequence is that cities ultimately don’t like to run them. They’re effective, and thus the revenue the city is expecting disappears. In they end they become costs rather than revenue sources.

that hasn't been true in any city i've lived in that had speed cameras (shockingly few actually). dc makes money on their cameras
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