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GitHub cuts AI deals with Google, Anthropic

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Re: GitHub cuts AI deals with Google, Anthropic

#471

Reviewing these conversations is like listening to horse and buggy manufacturers pooh-poohing automobiles: 1. they will scare the horses. a good team of horses is no match for funky 'automobile' 2. how will they be able to deal with our muddy, messy roads 3. their engines are unreliable and prone to breaking down stranding you in the middle and having to do it yourself.. 4. their drivers cant handle the speed, too ma…

It is hard to understand some phenomena if it stands to reduce your income. Even if the LLMs don't improve one bit from here and current state is froze, they are still too good and will be everywhere before we can finish talking of horses and automobiles.

LLMs make my job as a software engineer even more secure. Most of what I do is social and/or understand what is going on. LLMs are a tool to reduce mental load when in VSCode on some tasks. They are like the pilot's autopilot.

LLM takes my job then we have reached the singularity. Jobs wont matter anymore at that point.

Re: GitHub cuts AI deals with Google, Anthropic

#472
post #221

I use cursor and its tab completion; while what it can do is mind blowing, in practice I’m not noticing a productivity boost. I find that ai can help significantly with doing plumbing, but it has no problems with connecting the pipes wrong. I need to double and triple check the updated code - or fix the resulting errors when I don’t do that. So: boilerplate and outer app layers, yes; architecture and core libraries,…

I'm actually very curious why AI use is such a bi-modal experience. I've used AI to move multi thousand line codebases between languages. I've created new apps from scratch with it. My theory is the willingness to baby sit and the modality. I'm perfectly fine telling the tool I use its errors and working side by side with it like it was another person. At the end of the day it can belt out lines of code faster than I…

> move multi thousand line codebases between languages

i am more curious about why someone do would this

Re: GitHub cuts AI deals with Google, Anthropic

#473
post #460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm actually very curious why AI use is such a bi-modal experience. I've used AI to move multi thousand line codebases between languages. I've created new apps from scratch with it. My theory is the willingness to baby sit and the modality. I'm perfectly fine telling the tool I use its errors and working side by side with it like it was another person. At the end of the day it can belt out lines of code faster than I…

Interesting that you find the conversational approach effective. For me, I'd say 9 out of 10 code conversations get stuck in a loop with me telling the AI the next suggested iteration didn't actually change anything or changed it back to something that was already broken. Do you not experience that so often, of do you have a way to escape that?

I encounter that issue when the chat becomes too long.

Starting a new chat with context and asking your question again typically works for me.

Re: GitHub cuts AI deals with Google, Anthropic

#474

I usually feel like i can confidently express a change I want in code faster and better than I can explain what I want an AI to do in English. Like if I have a good prompt, these tools work okay, but getting that prompt almost as hard as just writing the code itself often. Do others feel the same struggle?

I’m positive my experience pales in comparison to yours, as I don’t actually code anything beyond the occasional single use script, but YES! I hate trying to explain the exact SQL result I’m looking for or some text modification I need to be able to throw together a CTE since I have read-only access and can’t even build a temp table.

GPT-4o usually does well with SQL. Did a query right first time using cte’s, array functions, table created on the fly in the query, etc.

SQL syntax is fiddly so it’s nice to have a robot do it.

Re: GitHub cuts AI deals with Google, Anthropic

#475

Reviewing these conversations is like listening to horse and buggy manufacturers pooh-poohing automobiles: 1. they will scare the horses. a good team of horses is no match for funky 'automobile' 2. how will they be able to deal with our muddy, messy roads 3. their engines are unreliable and prone to breaking down stranding you in the middle and having to do it yourself.. 4. their drivers cant handle the speed, too ma…

Reading this comment is like listening to Tesla in 2014 tell me about how their cars will be driving themselves. Give it 10 years.

Re: GitHub cuts AI deals with Google, Anthropic

#476
post #117
post #85

I’ve been using Cody from Sourcegraph to have access to other models, if copilot offers something similar I guess I will switch back to it. I find copilot autocomplete to be more often on point than Cody, but the chat experience with Cody + Sonnet 3.5 is way ahead in may experience

Context is a huge part of the chat experience in Cody, and we're working hard to stay ahead there as well with things like OpenCtx ( https://openctx.org ) and more code context based on the code graph (defs/refs/etc.). All this competition is good for everyone. :)

Your vscode and rider integrations are fantastic, love the different ways to add context to the chat

Re: GitHub cuts AI deals with Google, Anthropic

#477

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm actually very curious why AI use is such a bi-modal experience. I've used AI to move multi thousand line codebases between languages. I've created new apps from scratch with it. My theory is the willingness to baby sit and the modality. I'm perfectly fine telling the tool I use its errors and working side by side with it like it was another person. At the end of the day it can belt out lines of code faster than I…

As a programmer of over 20 years - this is terrifying. I'm willing to accept that I just have "get off my lawn" syndrome or something. But the idea of letting an LLM write/move large swaths of code seems so incredibly irresponsible. Whenever I sit down to write some code, be it a large implementation or a small function, I think about what other people (or future versions of myself) will struggle with when interactin…

> But the idea of letting an LLM write/move large swaths of code seems so incredibly irresponsible.

I think this is where the bimodality comes from. When someone says "I used AI to refactor 3000 loc" some take it to mean they used AI in small steps as an accellerator, and others take it to mean a direct copy/paste, fix compile errors and move on.

Treat AI like a mid level engineer that you are pair programming with, who can type insanely fast. Move in small steps. Read through it's code after each small iteration. Ask it to fix things (or fix them yourself if quick and easy). Brainstorm ideas with it etc etc.

Re: GitHub cuts AI deals with Google, Anthropic

#478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm actually very curious why AI use is such a bi-modal experience. I've used AI to move multi thousand line codebases between languages. I've created new apps from scratch with it. My theory is the willingness to baby sit and the modality. I'm perfectly fine telling the tool I use its errors and working side by side with it like it was another person. At the end of the day it can belt out lines of code faster than I…

As a programmer of over 20 years - this is terrifying. I'm willing to accept that I just have "get off my lawn" syndrome or something. But the idea of letting an LLM write/move large swaths of code seems so incredibly irresponsible. Whenever I sit down to write some code, be it a large implementation or a small function, I think about what other people (or future versions of myself) will struggle with when interactin…

> Whenever I sit down to write some code, be it a large implementation or a small function, I think about what other people (or future versions of myself) will struggle with when interacting with the code. Is it clear and concise? Is it too clever? Is it too easy to write a subtle bug when making changes? Have I made it totally clear that X is relying on Y dangerous behavior by adding a comment or intentionally making it visible in some other way?

> It goes the other way too. If I know someone well (or their style) then it makes evaluating their code easier. The more time I spend in a codebase the better idea I have of what the writer was trying to do.

What I believe you are describing is a general definition of "understanding", which I am sure you are aware. And given your 20+ year experience, your summary of:

> So the thought of opening up a codebase that was cobbled together by an AI is just scary to me. Subtle bugs and errors would be equally distributed across the whole thing instead of where the writer was less competent (as is often the case).

Is not only entirely understandable (pardon the pun), but to be expected as algorithms employed lack the crucial bit which you identify - understanding.

> The whole thing just sounds like a gargantuan mess.

As it does to most whom envision having to live with artifacts produced by a statistical predictive text algorithm.

> Change my mind.

One cannot because understanding, as people know it, is intrinsic to each person by definition. It exists as a concept within the person whom possesses it and is defined entirely by said person.

Re: GitHub cuts AI deals with Google, Anthropic

#479
post #452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a programmer of over 20 years - this is terrifying. I'm willing to accept that I just have "get off my lawn" syndrome or something. But the idea of letting an LLM write/move large swaths of code seems so incredibly irresponsible. Whenever I sit down to write some code, be it a large implementation or a small function, I think about what other people (or future versions of myself) will struggle with when interactin…

> But the idea of letting an LLM write/move large swaths of code seems so incredibly irresponsible I heard a similar thing from a dude when I said I use it for bash scripts instead of copying and pasting things off StackOverflow. He was a bit "get off my lawny" about the idea of running any code you didn't write, especially bash scripts in a terminal. It is obviously the case that I didn't write most of the code in t…

> Me reviewing AI code is no different from me reviewing anyone else's code.

I take your point, and on the whole I agree with your post, but this point is fundamentally _not_ correct, in that if I have a question about someone else's code I can ask them about their intention, state-of-mind, and understanding at the time they wrote it, and (subjectively, sure; but I think this is a reasonable claim) can _usually_ detect pretty well if they are bullshitting me when they respond. Asking AI for explanations tends to lead to extremely convincing and confident false justifications rather than an admission of error or doubt.

However:

> Me testing AI code using unit or integration tests is no different from testing anyone else's code, or my own code for that matter.

This is totally fair

Re: GitHub cuts AI deals with Google, Anthropic

#480
post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Porting a multi-thousand line web SaaS product in Typescript that's just CRUD operations and cranking out web views? Sure why not. > > Porting a multi-thousand line game codebase that's performance-critical and written in C++? Probably not. From my own experience: I really enjoy CoPilot to support me writing a terraform provider. I think this works well because we have hundreds of existing terraform providers with…

> If you need embedded C code for an obscure micro controller.. yeah, good luck. ... or even information in the embedded world. LLMs need to generate something, o they'll generate code even when the answer is "no dude, your chip doesn't support that".

> they'll generate code even when the answer is "no dude, your chip doesn't support that".

This is precisely the problem. As I point out elsewhere[0], reviewing AI-generated code is _not_ the same thing as reviewing code written by someone else, because you can ask a human author what they were thinking and get a moderately-honest response; whereas an AI will confidently and convincingly lie to you.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41991750

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