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Google must open Android for third-party stores, rules Epic judge

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Re: Google must open Android for third-party stores, rules Epic judge

#471

Post by telgareith »

can16358p wrote: post #376
orourke wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve been working with React Native and Flutter and every time I have to interact directly with iOS/Android, I find that Android is much easier to work with and feels much better designed from a software/api/config perspective. Where Apple wins, however, imho is in hardware. The iPhone is a masterpiece and users can tell, even ~16 years in. I feel that when Apple finally chokes on hardware, or some player in the Andr…

Interesting, I have the exact opposite: I'm also a React Native developer and it's _always_ Android that creates all sorts of problems when developing where iOS is just fine. And it's not me: many devs in my team (and all the teams that I've also worked in the past) think the same way. Though I'd agree with provisioning+codesigning can be a mess with iOS.

I think that this boils down to people wanting a handheld computer that sometimes can make phone calls (android), or a phone that can do other stuff (apple).

Just compare how android and iOS handle backgrounding.

Re: Google must open Android for third-party stores, rules Epic judge

#472

Post by madeofpalk »

pnt12 wrote: post #424
mike_d wrote: post #22

Epic's "First Run" program does all the things they got mad at Apple and Google about. You don't have to pay any license fees for Unreal Engine if you use Epic exclusively for payments. They give you 100% revshare for 6 months if you agree to not ship your game on any other app store. Let's not kid ourselves, Epic never cared about consumer choice or a fair playing field, they only want the ability to profit without…

Their vision, which I disagree with, of customer choice, is that its store is an alternative to Steam. Probably they justify their exclusives by not being a monopoly, which gets weird: steam has the monopoly numbers, but epic has the monopoly practices. They got a few customers from their giveaways - they should stick to those and further improving their store, maybe some people will actually want to use it.

There's no such thing as "monopoly practices". Being a monopoly isn't illegal. Exclusivity deals aren't illegal. What's illegal is using your powerful position in a market (a monopoly) to prevent competition. It's really the "prevent competition" bit where companies get in trouble.

An exclusivity deal from an upstart could be how they actually enable competition to exist.

Re: Google must open Android for third-party stores, rules Epic judge

#473

Post by [deleted] »

tmtvl wrote: post #6

Wait, so the Google Play Store, which you can install alternatives to (F-Droid, Aurora, Amazon,...), and where you can easily install apps through other means (such as downloading an APK through your browser and running it from the file manager) is an illegal monopoly while the Apple App Store isn't? Well, I guess Google's market cap is only 2 trillion compared to Apple's 3 trillion, so I guess that's fair.

[deleted]

Re: Google must open Android for third-party stores, rules Epic judge

#474

Post by space_oddity »

ethbr1 wrote: post #25
xnx wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is ridiculous. From Google's reply ( https://blog.google/outreach-initiatives/public-policy/epic-... ): "These Epic-requested changes stem from a decision that is completely contrary to another court’s rejection of similar claims Epic made against Apple — even though, unlike iOS, Android is an open platform that has always allowed for choice and flexibility like multiple app stores and sideloading."

It's probably not a great idea to point at a monopoly, as a defense of one's own monopoly, and claim "Yeah, but he did it worse." Both Google and Apple's platforms need to be cracked open to competition.

Both Google and Apple have built walled gardens with their app stores

Re: Google must open Android for third-party stores, rules Epic judge

#475

Post by acdha »

telgareith wrote: post #471
can16358p wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting, I have the exact opposite: I'm also a React Native developer and it's _always_ Android that creates all sorts of problems when developing where iOS is just fine. And it's not me: many devs in my team (and all the teams that I've also worked in the past) think the same way. Though I'd agree with provisioning+codesigning can be a mess with iOS.

I think that this boils down to people wanting a handheld computer that sometimes can make phone calls (android), or a phone that can do other stuff (apple). Just compare how android and iOS handle backgrounding.

I think that comparison would need some support. It is exceedingly rare that I hear any normal person mention doing something on Android that they couldn’t do on iOS, and the number of enthusiasts isn’t enough to drive a market that large.

Re: Google must open Android for third-party stores, rules Epic judge

#476

Post by space_oddity »

ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #92
ethbr1 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's probably not a great idea to point at a monopoly, as a defense of one's own monopoly, and claim "Yeah, but he did it worse." Both Google and Apple's platforms need to be cracked open to competition.

If apple literally hadn't won their own case 2 years ago you'd be right. If the company that literally doesn't allow users to install ANY application, yet alone a whole store, is in the clear, it's mind boggling that Google's situation is the one they took issue with. Apple literally has a higher market share in the US.

It sets a strange precedent

Re: Google must open Android for third-party stores, rules Epic judge

#477

Post by space_oddity »

tencentshill wrote: post #21

Soon we'll have the Verizon Appstore and the Spotify Appstore and the Zoom Appstore, the exclusive home for each app and their partners, each with it's own overlapping user tracking libraries and insecure payment methods, and no one can even tell them to do otherwise. Coming soon to iOS, too!

That’s a nightmare scenario, and honestly, it’s not that far-fetched

Re: Google must open Android for third-party stores, rules Epic judge

#478

Post by maxwell »

hooli42 wrote: post #61
whimsicalism wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, just like how they've done on desktop environments

This is exactly the situation for desktop games right now, something Epic is profiting immensely from. It's an extremely annoying situation for users, having a dozen launcher/store apps around contributing to bloat.

Speak for yourself. I love shopping around and comparing prices. Competition is not bloat.

Re: Google must open Android for third-party stores, rules Epic judge

#479

Post by maxwell »

AceFromOttawa wrote: post #262
flutas wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah, it's absolutely all apps on google play. > For a period of three years, Google will permit third-party Android app stores to access the Google Play Store's catalog of apps so that they may offer the Play Store apps to users. For apps available only in the Google Play Store (i.e., that are not independently available through the third-party Android app store), Google will permit users to complete the download of…

If there 100's of alternate app stores, all with different revenue sharing agreements, payment processing systems, etc etc etc how are developers going to manage it all? Does a developer need to share their billing info with 100's of app stores? Seperatly agree to each stores terms of service? Seems like it will get awfully complicated awfully quick.

Sounds like a healthy competitive marketplace!
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