Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Boeing workers vote to strike

washingtonpost.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

471–480 of 578 posts

Re: Boeing workers vote to strike

#471

Post by willcipriano »

mulmen wrote: post #460
willcipriano wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only president in my lifetime to not start any wars isn't really liked by either the democrats or the establishment republicans. Both parties are big fans of losing wars for some reason.

Were you born in 2020?

> An armed conflict between Israel and Hamas-led Palestinian militant groups[ad] has been taking place in the Gaza Strip and Israel since 7 October 2023.

> The United States has given Israel extensive military aid and vetoed multiple UN Security Council ceasefire resolutions.

> United States provided advice and intelligence to Israeli forces during the raid, through its "hostage cell" stationed in Israel. The attack resulted in the deaths of 274 Palestinians.

How would that work in your mind? Call that one for Harris because Biden is mentally unfit?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel%E2%80%93Hamas_war

Re: Boeing workers vote to strike

#472

Post by blueelephanttea »

hosh wrote: post #457
kedean wrote: post #446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not totally clear to me, but it is telling that the union members specifically say boeing needs to "stop breaking the law" and that the rejected deal included an allegedly large pay increase. 96% turning that down doesn't feel like the increase just wasn't enough to me

It goes with the perception of corporate greed. Boeing stocks have shot up, profits are not being shared, and those profits came at a cost of safety, and it isn't as if market share had not still declined against Airbus. I wouldn't be surprised if a machinist used to be able to go home, proud of the work they have done, and now, it is not so.

Unless you are talking about a very specific period in the last ten years, Boeing's stock has not "shot up". It is barely up over the last decade in a period when the total US market has nearly tripled.

Re: Boeing workers vote to strike

#473

Post by danielodievich »

squigz wrote: post #433
danielodievich wrote: post #397

During national neighbor night out few weeks ago I met a couple who just moved to the neighborhood, wife is a doctor and husband is a Boeing engineer in the material science something rather. Me being a huge Boeing fan we've immediately connected on the topic of Boeing's issues. His view from inside echoed mine - too many MBAs, too much focus on financial engineering and stock buybacks and shareholder returns (he was…

Why would bailing out Boeing be a good idea?

Um, they are one half of duopoly of widebody aircraft makers, they are a huge portion of high technology export from USA, they are in every state (for better or worse), they are a defense provider of insane importance with planes, rockets and satellites. Yeah, they're strategically essential to this country's abilities in airspace. I have no doubt they'd get bailed out. With a huge stink but they will.

Re: Boeing workers vote to strike

#474

Post by willcipriano »

ahmeneeroe-v2 wrote: post #450
willcipriano wrote: post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The comment I'm replying to said that and it was said frequently about Vietnam. What they didn't do is use the clear language I used and instead blamed the public for not wanting to spend every last penny on a pyrrhic victory as if that isn't attrition.

I agree that the dollar cost is real attrition too. Vietnam and Afghanistan were so wildly costly because we made the (political) choice to limit how we could engage the enemy, while our enemies were not limiting themselves Vietnam: limiting Cambodia ops, the DMZ, limiting bombing of N Vietnam Afghanistan: limiting Pakistan ops, focusing on creating a stable democracy rather than killing Taliban then leaving We made…

Yeah, we could use biological weapons or drop hydrogen bombs as a few examples. We could send marines house to house executing anyone who even looks like a bad guy. Trouble is giving a few million civilians radiation poisoning or the bubonic plaque to "stop communism" or to "spread democracy" is evil and insane.

Re: Boeing workers vote to strike

#475

Post by bloodyplonker22 »

benced wrote: post #445

A lot of people here seem justifiably angry at Boeing management's total destruction of an engineering corporate culture. It's unclear to me if fixing that is what the machinists are demanding or if they just want normal union things like being paid more and working less. No hate if they are optimizing for that, unions don't exist to serve corporate culture. Just want to be clear-eyed about what the union is seeking…

> A lot of people here seem justifiably angry at Boeing management's total destruction of an engineering corporate culture. It's unclear to me if fixing that is what the machinists are demanding or if they just want normal union things like being paid more and working less.

Let's not be naive here. People are going to strike on what they are incentivized to strike on. Not the goodness of their hearts.

Re: Boeing workers vote to strike

#476

Post by JumpCrisscross »

willcipriano wrote: post #471
mulmen wrote: post #460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Were you born in 2020?

> An armed conflict between Israel and Hamas-led Palestinian militant groups[ad] has been taking place in the Gaza Strip and Israel since 7 October 2023. > The United States has given Israel extensive military aid and vetoed multiple UN Security Council ceasefire resolutions. > United States provided advice and intelligence to Israeli forces during the raid, through its "hostage cell" stationed in Israel. The attack…

By that measure what the hell was bombing Suleimani? Or moving our recognised capital of Israel to Jerusalem? Or arms to Saudi Arabia during their war with Yemen?

Neither Trump nor Biden started a war. They had wars happening around them that we were to various degrees involved.

Re: Boeing workers vote to strike

#477

Post by AndrewKemendo »

asats wrote: post #417
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #330

In my mind, this is an unalloyed good The practice alone of organizing labor power against owners, irrespective of the demands, given the existing state of the world, is what is needed to show Class solidarity. Simply showing class solidarity in order to kick off other strikes is valuable in and of itself. Y’all really have to understand a general strike is coming. A general strike means the labor class (you most lik…

In your profile it says you work for some company, do the founders know you want to expropriate their company? Those damn kulaks, feasting on the fruits of your labor.

Yes they do.

I’m employee #3 so…you know Probably not exactly what you expected

Re: Boeing workers vote to strike

#478

Post by ska »

iancmceachern wrote: post #86

Any Boeing engineers who may be looking for alternate paths, please know that I've known many great aerospace engineers who have made a pivot to medical devices very successfully and many of the best medical devices to come out in recent years are due to such. It seems very different but really it's very similar.

In the other direction, I’ve hired engineers out of aerospace into medical devices and can confirm it’s a pretty easy fit.

Re: Boeing workers vote to strike

#479

Post by ska »

Balgair wrote: post #237
iancmceachern wrote: post #86

Any Boeing engineers who may be looking for alternate paths, please know that I've known many great aerospace engineers who have made a pivot to medical devices very successfully and many of the best medical devices to come out in recent years are due to such. It seems very different but really it's very similar.

I'll echo this and have done something of this path. It's a very similar field surprisingly. Quite rewarding too. The timelines for products are also about the same (years-decade). The one tip is to not bother applying to Medtronic. They don't actually hire anything outside of interns. All the job postings are for internal roles (but required by federal law to be ... blah blah blah). Suffice to say, don't bother.

This isn’t really true in my experience. They may be leery of hiring from outside the industry.

Re: Boeing workers vote to strike

#480

Post by animal_spirits »

ghaff wrote: post #175
radu_floricica wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's taking something that happened about a century ago and using it as an argument for the current situation. If you're looking for something much closer to home, look at how in the past half century unionized corporations were forced to take over pensions, and how they're doing now because of this. Pensions are a financial product, which should be paid for by each employee - quite likely with supervision and safe…

The alternative view is that, left to themselves, people don't save enough for retirement and, for better or worse, social security in the US really isn't enough for a comfortable retirement. That said, there are a lot of reasons why traditional defined benefit pensions aren't a good match for a lot of jobs today. I have one (for a non-union job) but it's mostly a positive because I'm sure I never gave it a second th…

This is patronizing and broadly not true for a majority of people. This myth was created during the Great Depression to sell Social Security. Some people do not save for their retirement, but vastly most of us do. Should I be forced to pay for those who waste their money on entertainment and high living?
Post reply on HN