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Microsoft will switch off Recall by default after security backlash

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Re: Microsoft will switch off Recall by default after security backlash

#471

Post by wkat4242 »

haswell wrote: post #143
nomel wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> that little thought has gone into privacy or security. I think the thought is proportional to the amount of thought a non-tech customer will put into it. Nobody seems to care about or understands privacy these days. Everyone knows they're being tracked everywhere they go physically and on the web. People use their real names, address, etc for every junk service they sign up for, without seeing any reason not to. If…

> I think the thought is proportional to the amount of thought a non-tech customer will put into it. Part of me wonders if this is the consequence of how accessible tech has become, and the prevalence of increasingly non-technical product managers. I'm a former PM, and I'm not here to denigrate the PM role, but the fact that a product like Recall got shipped says a lot about the makeup of the product org that shipped…

> but the fact that a product like Recall got shipped says a lot about the makeup of the product org that shipped it.

Microsoft is just tripping over themselves right now bringing AI to market because they don't want to miss the boat. Their copilot for office 365 stuff is hardly working, it's real beta quality. No normal company would have released it to market in this state. But they're just terrified that Google will eat their lunch.

I don't think security and privacy concerns are much on the radar there anymore. They just want to establish their name in this new market at all costs. And I think in their eyes it makes sense, they've always succeeded because they had the biggest installed base, not because they were the best. It makes sense they see value in being first mover at all costs.

It's just a bit frustrating as a customer. As usual with something they launch it's more promise than substance. I have to say that usually they do have the follow-through to really make it a success. But it does take time.

Re: Microsoft will switch off Recall by default after security backlash

#472

Post by SoftTalker »

piva00 wrote: post #331
SoftTalker wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's how it's always been, always. Many here may be too young to remember when many consumer products came with a "product registration" card. This was basically a postcard that asked for all sorts of information, such as your name, address, phone number, birthdate, sex, SSN, marital status, annual income, interests, other products owned, whether you own or rent your home, etc. People willingly filled these out and s…

> It's all much more pervasive and invisible now, but it's basically what has always been done. Basically is doing a lot of work here, the level and degree of how much data is vacuumed, processed, and used for targeting nowadays is orders of magnitude of difference from these primitive ways. A tent and a house are basically the same: a shelter.

Right, the pervasivenes today is much higher. But marketers/advertisers have always hoovered up and exploited as much information as was technically possible. That attitude isn't new.

Re: Microsoft will switch off Recall by default after security backlash

#473

Post by consumer451 »

lucianbr wrote: post #469
kjellsbells wrote: post #467

Heres something I just don't get. Microsoft just got their ass handed to them by the US Government because os (lapses in) security. Extremely more than coincidentally, Satya Nadella told the entire Microsoft org that if anyone had to choose between features and security, to choose security. I'm hearing from Microsoft people that all product roadmaps are deferred for a few months while security features are addressed.…

What's so hard to get? Security and trust are lip service. Corporations lie to make a buck. How is it not obvious? Actions speak louder than words.

The user data is just too juicy a potential profit center to pass up on. So many models to create, to theoretically replace many of us.

We should assume that everyone is on their worst behavior going forward. Zoom, Slack, MS, Apple, etc.

Re: Microsoft will switch off Recall by default after security backlash

#474

Post by disqard »

kjellsbells wrote: post #467

Heres something I just don't get. Microsoft just got their ass handed to them by the US Government because os (lapses in) security. Extremely more than coincidentally, Satya Nadella told the entire Microsoft org that if anyone had to choose between features and security, to choose security. I'm hearing from Microsoft people that all product roadmaps are deferred for a few months while security features are addressed.…

I'll take a shot (not at MS, so I have no inside info).

GenAI is hotter than anything else right now. As Satya publicly stated, "we made them dance" -- which shows how high-priority it is to maximize "AI innovation" at MS.

If you disagree, think about how badly "Tay" blew up in MS's face and yet they still went ahead and bundled OpenAI LLM tech into all of Office365, just so they could have bragging rights about beating Google to it.

At this point, it's a race (to where? who knows) and no Big Tech Corp wants to be seen as "not at the forefront".

That's my $0.02, anyway :)

Re: Microsoft will switch off Recall by default after security backlash

#475

Post by thaumasiotes »

filleduchaos wrote: post #445
thaumasiotes wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as metadata versus data, the URL of a static image automatically discloses the image itself. The only way to claim that the history doesn't actually contain the image is if you assume that the site has gone defunct. Unless, of course, you're willing to argue that a porn image stored on the local hard drive isn't contained in any folders on the same PC that soft-link it. You might have an interesting time tryin…

Am I confused about what browser history is or what? Unless you open a static image in a new tab to look at it or you download it (as opposed to simply looking at it on the page it's on), then how on earth would its URL show up in browser history , which by definition tracks user-visited webpages (i.e. top-level links) and not every single URL the browser makes a request to? Sure, info about non-top-level links is ex…

It sounds like you're mostly just confused about how web pages work.

Here is the URL of an image as it appears in your browser history: https://cheezburger.com/10357071872/if-i-fits-i-sits

See if you can figure out what image I was looking at.

Re: Microsoft will switch off Recall by default after security backlash

#476

Post by autoexec »

SoftTalker wrote: post #472
piva00 wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's all much more pervasive and invisible now, but it's basically what has always been done. Basically is doing a lot of work here, the level and degree of how much data is vacuumed, processed, and used for targeting nowadays is orders of magnitude of difference from these primitive ways. A tent and a house are basically the same: a shelter.

Right, the pervasivenes today is much higher. But marketers/advertisers have always hoovered up and exploited as much information as was technically possible. That attitude isn't new.

Another thing that is absolutely new is the vast number of people using this data for things other than ads/marketing. The data on registration cards was never used to decide if you get a job or not, or how much you pay for a hotel room vs the next person, or how long you wait on hold when you call a customer service line, or how much your insurance rates go up, or whether or not you're a suspect in a criminal investigation, or if you get custody of your child in a divorce proceeding. The amount of things our data ends up being used for is on a scale that simply was not possible when people started filling out product registration forms.

Re: Microsoft will switch off Recall by default after security backlash

#477

Post by autoexec »

skydhash wrote: post #187
nomel wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> that little thought has gone into privacy or security. I think the thought is proportional to the amount of thought a non-tech customer will put into it. Nobody seems to care about or understands privacy these days. Everyone knows they're being tracked everywhere they go physically and on the web. People use their real names, address, etc for every junk service they sign up for, without seeing any reason not to. If…

Do you listen to music only with earbuds? Do you cover your face when going outside? Do you transform your voice for each person you’re talking to? Are you buying only with cash that you handled with gloves? Privacy is not a binary concept. There are actions and information that some people are ok being public, and there are some they prefer to remain private. What is not OK is spying and exploitation. I should know…

Most people think that "anonymized" data can protect them https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2023/11/debunking-myth-anonymo...

Re: Microsoft will switch off Recall by default after security backlash

#478

Post by autoexec »

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #189
GordonS wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your browsing history is unlikely to contain personal information, secrets, porn images etc. And if you use Chrome, they get your full browsing history by default. I get your point, but Microsoft's Recall can capture anything onscreen - emails, personal info, porn, passwords and the like. And it feels, bizarrely for 2024, that little thought has gone into privacy or security.

I think they actually did consider that - that's why they emphasized it was all on device. They thought about it, they just didn't think about how little we would trust that promise.

Even if they kept that promise and they never uploaded the data off our devices, someone else (a hacker, a cop, a stalker, a lawyer, a thief, an abuser) will. Their promise is that everything you ever do on your device will be stored anywhere and can be used against you at any time. It turns out that not many people actually want that.

Re: Microsoft will switch off Recall by default after security backlash

#479

Post by autoexec »

WhackyIdeas wrote: post #459
pydry wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm perplexed that anybody thinks Microsoft were being dumb. They know exactly what they are doing and putting the pieces in place to violate users' security is the point. Theyre just boiling the frog slowly. It'll be turned on by default soon enough and then theyll start looking for excuses to upload it. This can be used to make them a shedload of money one day.

Totally. They just thought nobody would give a fuck. Except, people did. And now Adobe is getting it too.

Adobe figures that if MS can get away with it why can't they? Companies will just keep chipping away at our privacy every chance that they get because our data is extraordinarily valuable and we can't stay hypervigilant and outraged forever. Eventually, they'll get what they want, and then they'll push a little more.

Re: Microsoft will switch off Recall by default after security backlash

#480

Post by autoexec »

shawnz wrote: post #294
GordonS wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your browsing history is unlikely to contain personal information, secrets, porn images etc. And if you use Chrome, they get your full browsing history by default. I get your point, but Microsoft's Recall can capture anything onscreen - emails, personal info, porn, passwords and the like. And it feels, bizarrely for 2024, that little thought has gone into privacy or security.

What about the browser cache? And isn't there some capability in many browsers to store form field contents when navigating back/forward too?

At this point browser cache is known to everyone, and many people do clear it regularly. Browsers save passwords and form data but as far as I know they don't upload that data to Google. Still, chrome is very popular and it sends google people's browsing history and all their DNS traffic.
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