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Baltimore's Key Bridge struck by cargo ship, collapses

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Re: Baltimore's Key Bridge struck by cargo ship, collapses

#471

Post by lm28469 »

mhb wrote: post #329
squigz wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many people would need to die for it to be justified in your eyes? Or maybe just focus on the potential loss of cargo from trucks on the bridge, if that helps you.

How many? It depends on the opportunity cost of installing and maintaining whatever half baked thing (lights, sirens, computer vision, AI, barriers) it is OP is envisioning on how many thousands of bridges versus the frequency of issues it will prevent. This calculation is done all the time but not so much by the "if it saves only one x" crowd of clever solution proposers.

> It depends on the opportunity cost of installing and maintaining whatever half baked thing (lights, sirens, computer vision, AI, barriers)

I love how we jump to AI when all we need is 4 cameras and a dude with a pair of eyes...

Wait until you learn how train barriers worked not so long ago

Re: Baltimore's Key Bridge struck by cargo ship, collapses

#472

Post by Baxxter »

mikeyouse wrote: post #386
mixedmath wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure if I would expect any bridge to survive being struck by an enormous container ship.

Older bridges no, but newer bridges should absolutely. The Bay Bridge was struck in 2007 and came away mostly unscathed due to earlier efforts to prevent catastrophic damage in that scenario; https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosco_Busan_oil_spill Though the Maryland accident looks like it struck it dead on - just a massive amount of energy to absorb.

'The Bay Bridge' refers to something else in this part of the country.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chesapeake_Bay_Bridge

Re: Baltimore's Key Bridge struck by cargo ship, collapses

#473

Post by Joker_vD »

paddy_m wrote: post #461
lenerdenator wrote: post #453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How common are power outages on ships? I get that the captain might not have responded to it correctly but that seems like a thing that shouldn't happen, at least in my completely uneducated opinion.

It shouldn't happen. There will be investigations. I think that having a properly operating ship is the captain's responsibility. But the ship's pilot [1] (not captain) should know exactly how the boat will handle and the exact course of action. Pilots are extremely well paid ($200-$400k) and the tests are very stringent. Friends have told me that the Narraganset Bay pilot test involves drawing every shipping navigat…

Where do you get those salary numbers from? The info about this "Dali" ship is not private: [0], and it lists the master's salary as $10,200 per month.

[0] https://www.balticshipping.com/vessel/imo/9697428/seafarers

Re: Baltimore's Key Bridge struck by cargo ship, collapses

#474

Post by kamaal »

theluketaylor wrote: post #415
master_crab wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also want to highlight this for another reason. At slow speeds rail and boats suffer from far less “moving” friction than road vehicles. So once off there is very little slowing them down vs cars and trucks that suffer from high rolling friction.

Grady Hillhouse of Practical Engineering recently did a great demo of this. He was able to pull his car in neutral and an empty train car on rails with roughly the same force. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGhBHrr5CYQ

One wonders how braking works on a train.

Re: Baltimore's Key Bridge struck by cargo ship, collapses

#475

Post by spenczar5 »

secstate wrote: post #442
paddy_m wrote: post #438

Youtube tracking analysis from a knowledgeable mariner. He says that at about 1:24 AM the ship loses power (from video feed) while traveling 8.5 knots. at 1:25.30 power is restored. at 12:25.59 the ship shows smoke. The ship has already drifted in the channel. It is believed that at this time the ship applied full reverse power as evidenced by the black smoke. (My analysis: the ship drifted but hasn't turned in the c…

Does that mean this was effectively captain error? Like in response to a power outage the decision was made to try to reverse and rather than arrest forward momentum it just pushed their forward vector into the piling?

Captain, or pilot? In Baltimore, as in most harbors, a local pilot comes on board to guide the ship. Is this their responsibility?

Re: Baltimore's Key Bridge struck by cargo ship, collapses

#476

Post by lancemjoseph »

doom2 wrote: post #258
matthewdgreen wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We’ve also got cherry blossoms, some good ramen and a few good breweries. Shocking lack of excellent Mexican food, however. And some world-class hospitals and universities. Don’t take TV shows so seriously.

Not a ton of Mexican food, but if you're open to other Central or South American cuisines, there are a ton of places in upper Fells Point.

Please do yourselves a favor if you haven't already and check out the tacos at Taqueria el Sabor del Parque on the south side of Patterson Park. Also while you're in the area, grab a kilo of tortillas from El Taquito Mexicano in Fells.

Re: Baltimore's Key Bridge struck by cargo ship, collapses

#477

Post by lanthade »

kerbs wrote: post #366
jxdxbx wrote: post #136

Not that it matters to anyone else, but having driven across that bridge dozens of times with my kids, this is just shocking. It’s one of the main corridors in the area. Thank god it happened in the middle of the night, though that’ll be no consolation to the families of those who may have died.

Memories of the Minneapolis bridge collapse. I lived <1 mile from it at the time it went down, and had crossed it earlier in the day on my commute.

Yeah. I was out of town hiking in Wyoming at the time and was told it was the 35E bridge by a passing hiker who relayed the news to me. My mom drove the 35E bridge twice a day. I couldn’t hike out and call home fast enough. I didn’t know anyone who was on the bridge when it fell but I do know many who missed being on it by minutes. Scary stuff.

Re: Baltimore's Key Bridge struck by cargo ship, collapses

#478

Post by TylerE »

Joker_vD wrote: post #473
paddy_m wrote: post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It shouldn't happen. There will be investigations. I think that having a properly operating ship is the captain's responsibility. But the ship's pilot [1] (not captain) should know exactly how the boat will handle and the exact course of action. Pilots are extremely well paid ($200-$400k) and the tests are very stringent. Friends have told me that the Narraganset Bay pilot test involves drawing every shipping navigat…

Where do you get those salary numbers from? The info about this "Dali" ship is not private: [0], and it lists the master's salary as $10,200 per month. [0] https://www.balticshipping.com/vessel/imo/9697428/seafarers

The pilot is employed by the port/government, not the ship. They drive to just outside the entrance, then they get off onto a tugboat or some other small utility vessel.

Re: Baltimore's Key Bridge struck by cargo ship, collapses

#479

Post by emilyst »

Joker_vD wrote: post #473
paddy_m wrote: post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It shouldn't happen. There will be investigations. I think that having a properly operating ship is the captain's responsibility. But the ship's pilot [1] (not captain) should know exactly how the boat will handle and the exact course of action. Pilots are extremely well paid ($200-$400k) and the tests are very stringent. Friends have told me that the Narraganset Bay pilot test involves drawing every shipping navigat…

Where do you get those salary numbers from? The info about this "Dali" ship is not private: [0], and it lists the master's salary as $10,200 per month. [0] https://www.balticshipping.com/vessel/imo/9697428/seafarers

I believe the parent comment is referring to the harbor pilot job specifically.

Re: Baltimore's Key Bridge struck by cargo ship, collapses

#480

Post by hnburnsy »

chasd00 wrote: post #312
TaylorAlexander wrote: post #66

Somehow I find it surprising how completely the bridge collapsed after the damage. I understand that a container ship collision is serious, but you could imagine a scenarios where the bridge slumps or buckles but doesn’t just disintegrate like that. It’s surprising that ships capable of doing this damage were probably regularly driving past it, and its safety as a thoroughfare depended entirely on those collisions no…

I don’t drive boats or around water much but I’ve seen “bumpers” on bridge pylons before that make a collision more of a glancing blow and guide the boat to the side. I guess there wasn’t any installed on this bridge? Also, someone on Imgur pointed out that when this bridge was built boats that large weren’t a risk. That may or may not be true but sounds plausible.

There were tiny bumpers, two for each pylon, one on each side, but looks like they were place too far out, you can see them here...

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/1c/6e/f8/1c6ef8db981c77b1bd7809827...

Ironically there are power lines running in parallel that have much more substantial protection, here you can see the powerline protection and the tiny bumpers...

https://patabook.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/cbsn-fu...

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