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Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

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Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#471

Post by nayaketo »

shprd wrote: post #319
bawolff wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Essentially that implies Israel will get shot at and not be allowed to shoot back. I suspect most Israelis would find that unreasonable. Israeli civilians don't like being killed anymore than Palestinian civilians do. The thing that usually prevents war is that both sides lose in the end. If only one side is allowed to shoot, why would the side being allowed to shoot ever stop? They would be getting all the benefits…

> Israel will get shot at and not be allowed to shoot back. The logic doesn't really follow What shots exactly? the missiles? Attack the launch sites. They're pretty clear as they expose themselves. Israel has 24/7 surveillance it shouldn't be a challenge. Can you support your claim by showing evidence that a hospital was used to launch missiles? You likely don't have evidence that Israel is targeting anything. It se…

> What shots exactly? the missiles? Attack the launch sites.

What if those launch sites are top of hospitals or media buildings?

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#472

Post by yyyk »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #373
yyyk wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> Because the Russian government took Ukrainian children to raise as Russians, something without parallel in I/P. I cannot find any reference to this as a reasoning for declaring genocide. 6 countries made a declaration, and all allegations centre around rampant killing of civilians. That's the main benchmark. > Weirdly, quiet a few of the nations making this critique were notably cool on Ukraine..hypocrisy is in the…

>Without googling, can you tell how many armed conflicts are going on in Africa right now?

Without googling: I know of Sudan, Congo, the Mali / subsaharan Jihadi mess (they've been sieging Timbuktu for months now?), Somalia (recently also Somaliland area) and Ethiopia (civil war with TPLF reduced, but Oromo still going on). Northern Nigeria always has something bad going on.

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#473

Post by matsemann »

dang wrote: post #132
hersko wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey Dang, huge fan of HN. How do you reconcile HN's political neutrality and the fact that almost every overtly political story that hits the front page about certain subjects[1] are blatantly biased on one side? [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39435324

I think it's a legit concern and it worries me too. We can only go by the articles that users submit, and then only the subset we see, which is a function of (a) randomness and (b) users bringing specific cases to our attention. If there's a bias in the stories that have made HN's front page, that bias is present in the underlying data (I mean this stream of articles) to begin with. Why might that be? Well, there are…

FWIW, it's also easy to claim HN is biased, because people are biased differently, and HN is close to global.

As a northern european, I for instance would say that I often find HN trend conservative, compared to the discourses in my country. But someone from a different part of the world could claim HN to lean progressive, based on their political environment.

So I don't think there is an easy way here. If one were to decide that HN should balance both-sides, who draws where the middle lies?

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#474

Post by AtlasBarfed »

wolverine876 wrote: post #440
AtlasBarfed wrote: post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q36f2TqaD30 I found this interview pretty thought provoking. I think it is still pro-Israel, but it provides a view of Hamas's strategy that I haven't seen anywhere else. Basically, what I think Hamas leadership was thinking was to mirror the Hezbollah-Israel conflict from, what, 10 years ago, on a much bigger scale. According to this CIA officer, Hamas had 30,000 soldiers ready to eng…

> Israel did NOT rush in, and is engaging in effective counterattacks According to all the experts I read, Israel rushed in without a political outcome planned. All warfare is a tool to achieve political outcomes (unless the outcome was to drive Palestinians out of Gaza or just destroy as many people and buildings as possible). All warfare ends only with a stable political solution; otherwise it continues indefinitel…

The political aim was to cause a LOT of casualties. I'm not going to disagree that this is ugly stuff, but Hamas must have known this was the result. Also I do think the Israelis think they can get a large amount of Hamas leadership.

Gaza is a mafia state under control by Hamas, who likely control all aid coming into the country and certainly the Iranian military funding.

Israel seems to apply a 10x minimum response to any Israeli casualties over the years. This attack is well above the 10x number already.

And remember, the Israelis do not completely surround Gaza. Egypt is complicit in closing the walls of the prison on Gaza, and Egypt I'm told hates the Palestinians more than Israel does. I wonder why this is, Egypt did manage/oversee Gaza for 25 years and I guess said "no thanks".

AFAIK, it's not like the Sinai peninsula is some valuable land, I think Egypt has room to take in Palestinian refugees. They simply refuse to do it. I have not gotten any good reason why they hate them. I guess the Lebanese hate their Palestinian enclave. It is clear the Arab world doesn't care about the Palestinians, and a common brotherhood of Islam doesn't carry weight.

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#475

Post by hef19898 »

flyinglizard wrote: post #435
golergka wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gaza civilians are not on the Hamas “side”.

Hamas is the sovereign in Gaza. It’s literally their elected government.

You should check when the last election was. And even if the majority supports Hamas, it is NEVER a justification to target civilians.

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#476

Post by hef19898 »

kaba0 wrote: post #420
someotherperson wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's just noise. Scaling this to other examples: if there was a school shooter inside a school, should the school be bombed? The answer is a resounding no, but with Gaza it turns into a yes. This is why the common rhetoric given from politicians and jingoists is that all of them are guilty and that no one is innocent. Using the same example, the workers and students of that school are de facto responsible because the…

The scales are so completely different that that analogy is just done in bad faith.

Yes, there a lot more civilians killed in Gaza every day than you could fit into a school. What Israel does is much, much worse.

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#477

Post by shprd »

rendall wrote: post #454

[flagged]

> meaning they are certainly inflated

Do you have even a glimpse of evidance? or are we speculating now? They deaths are published by full name and national number. Regardless, the masscare is ongoing and the exact number doesn't change anything. It's not like there's a certain threshold they aimed for.

It's disgusting that your first response to reading 30,000 people were killed was to speculate and try to undertone it.

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#478

Post by hef19898 »

Scarblac wrote: post #254
immibis wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the point of hiding soldiers among civilian targets if Israel is just going to bomb the civilian targets? The point of any fighter using human shields is that the enemy doesn't fire because they don't want to hurt the human shields . If they're willing to kill the human shields, they don't help you, so why bother with them? This apparent myth rubs me the same way as "there's no food because Hamas is stealing i…

> What's the point of hiding soldiers among civilian targets if Israel is just going to bomb the civilian targets Getting international opinion to turn against Israel. Thats the way Hamas can survive this, getting enough pressure on Israel to make them stop.

One, Hamas isn't doing this. No proof beyond the inevitable effects of fighting in one of the most densly populated areas on this planet.

Two, Israel is doing an incredible good job at putting the pressure on themselves right now.

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#479

Post by hef19898 »

nsguy wrote: post #115
adgjlsfhk1 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if Russia says that everyone in the UK has to leave the UK that doesn't give them the right to bomb every hospital in the UK

That's true but if the UK military intentionally embeds in all UK cities, in civilian clothes, and launches rockets at Russia from those cities, and the UK sends raids into Russia to kill Russians and then retreats and mixes with civilian population in the UK, what do you feel is a legitimate move or tactic by Russia to defend its citizens in this hypothetical situation?

Gaza is among the most densly populated areas on earth. By definition, any military installation is close to civilians. Same goes for a lot of IDF, and every other military, ehich has bases next to a city. Doesn't mean one just can indiscriminately bomb everything and everyone...

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#480

Post by matsemann »

flyinglizard wrote: post #435
golergka wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gaza civilians are not on the Hamas “side”.

Hamas is the sovereign in Gaza. It’s literally their elected government.

Elected in 2006. Half the population weren't even alive then. Over then thousand dead children the last months also have had no say even if there had been a recent election. Don't try to blame this on the victims.
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