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Goodbye non-KISS appliances

willbush.dev

471–480 of 499 posts

Re: Goodbye non-KISS appliances

#471
post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We should also hope they remain cheaper, and companies don’t start selling the “smart” appliances for less with the idea that they can somehow makeup for it on data collection or ongoing upsells and subscriptions.

I wouldn't. Cost to make a device "smart" is much less than $1 in parts, app and infrastructure are not rocket science and even with no evil intentions you get very valuable data on usage, what breaks first, environment, location etc. Seems like a no-brainer. Those will soon also not require you to connect them to your wifi, NB-IoT both chips and plans cost for businesses are already very good.

> app and infrastructure are not rocket science

Thanks to Tuya, the software and infra side for making a garbage-quality IoT device is effectively free now. You may be surprised just how much of those you have around you. Any random device class that suddenly gained optional "control through app/voice assistants" feature is likely Tuya in disguise - magic of white-label IoT.

Re: Goodbye non-KISS appliances

#472

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does food in the US not go off? The limiting factor for me isn't the size of my fridge, but the fact that after a week all my vegetables are looking sad and my milk's starting to smell. I probably wish my fridge was bigger a handful of days a year - and that's because I'm having a party and need to squeeze in more wine and beer. Quite a lot of my fridge is taken up with random jars that I'll probably never eat. A big…

Having lived on both sides of the pond, you'd tend to buy different kinds of products, in USA the grocery variety pushes you towards less fresh/spoiling products and more towards various processed products which will up a fridge for weeks. And also actually food in US does somehow seem to last for longer, as probably the manufacturers anticipate this need and optimize for that (as there's no free lunch, likely at the…

> And also actually food in US does somehow seem to last for longer, as probably the manufacturers anticipate this need and optimize for that (as there's no free lunch, likely at the expense of other factors);

Probably taste, at least anecdotally - every single person from my side of the world that visited the US that I talked to, mentions the food there tastes just bland in general - and that's both veggies and highly-processed foods.

Re: Goodbye non-KISS appliances

#473

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The yoder loop on a fridge is designed to prevent condensation near the door seals. Depending on your climate you may be able to get away without one. When I'm talking about the heater on mine not working, I'm talking about the heater for the evaporator. Without a working heater I'd get enough ice built up on the evaporator within a week to cause problems with the evaporator fan. If the fan doesn't work you're not go…

You didn’t mention the evap heater. What could LG have done differently to fix your fridge to factory spec?

Pretty much everything else could be done differently:

- Calling in a warranty claim involved going through a troubleshooting script that wanted me to do things that my fridge could not do. LG needs to get their documentation in order so that their call center staff can at least approach being useful.

- LG punted me to an authorized service center first thing. I'm in the Bay Area which should, IMO, be a large enough market to have sufficient LG direct staff. LG needs to hire more repair staff.

- The third party ignored me for a few weeks and then I started making noise in LG's general direction. LG probably needs to up their warranty rates to entice third parties to actually service these calls.

- LG finally sent one of their techs out. He called me, I described the symptoms and the temperature graphs to give him an idea of what's going on. He finally admitted that he didn't have ANY parts for this fridge on his truck. So I told him to order what he thought needed. That took about two weeks. On his first visit he identified more stuff he wanted to replace so that took another few days because the west coast distribution center didn't have the parts and he missed the cutoff for the east coast center. LG needs to get their American logistics in order.

- LG pushed really hard to get the tech out here ASAP even though he had some idea as to what was wrong and was in no position to fix anything. LG ought to stop relying so heavily on useless metrics.

It's been a long enough time I don't remember the precise symptoms and I've no idea what actually failed beyond a thermistor so it's impossible to suggest engineering improvements. However I think LG ought to work on training their own techs to get their diagnostic skills up to snuff.

Although I'm pretty sure it's not one of LG's horrific linear compressors, I suspect the compressor failed or there was a refrigerant leak. Unlike the above poster I've working knowledge of automotive A/C not small appliances. In a car the refrigerant will carry the lubricant, so a refrigerant leak can indeed cause problems as the compressor eventually runs dry. For all I know the fridge's compressor uses an oil free design and failed for other reasons. I think the tech checked temperatures at the condenser and was happy with that – but remember unlike on a car refrigerators have no ports to check pressures. That's crucial in diagnosing problems, so techs are kinda flying blind here.

If the problem was with the sealed system then the solution is: LG needs to engineer their fridges properly. Fixing the sealed system in the field is something you can do (except for the yoder loop in the insulation) but it takes time and skill, things that most techs don't have. Basically those repairs won't last. Working with aluminum (welding, brazing, soldering) is tough, although I think LG is moving to using fancy compression fittings for repairs.

If it's basically anything else they need to again work on training their techs to diagnose these things properly.

Re: Goodbye non-KISS appliances

#474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The person you first responded to said that some problems exist, you said they don't, and I expanded a bit, agreeing with them. The person I responded to said: > I cannot turn my lights on because somewhere, potentially thousands of miles away, some datacenters failed, even if those datacenters could, ostensibly, only give me ads and "improvements" and not any core feature. That problem doesn't exist. Your smart li…

> That problem doesn't exist. Your smart lightbulbs fallback to being regular lightbulbs in the absence of an internet connection, even for the most popular centralized service ones today (Hue). What about my robo vacuum cleaner? Also, you keep mentioning Hue as if this is what people buy. People with lots of disposable income buy Hue. Everyone else buys some cheap $noname Tuya crap (or get it installed by the contra…

> What about my robo vacuum cleaner?

Those aren't lightbulbs, which is what we were talking about.

Re: Goodbye non-KISS appliances

#475

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You didn’t mention the evap heater. What could LG have done differently to fix your fridge to factory spec?

Pretty much everything else could be done differently: - Calling in a warranty claim involved going through a troubleshooting script that wanted me to do things that my fridge could not do. LG needs to get their documentation in order so that their call center staff can at least approach being useful. - LG punted me to an authorized service center first thing. I'm in the Bay Area which should, IMO, be a large enough…

Ah you’re not OP. Sorry, I was only interested in why OP called techs “idiots” after they (eventually) correctly diagnosed an unfixable fridge.

Re: Goodbye non-KISS appliances

#476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get why it matters so much to people. It's all just incentives aligning and how the deals work. Having a subscription can actually be beneficial in terms of incentive to keep up supporting the product in my view. If it's a huge problem psychologically for you, maybe you can just take the following 5 years or whatever time you estimate you will be using the product and calculate that into the base price to mak…

>I don't get why it matters so much to people. It's all just incentives aligning Adding advertising into the mix almost always makes the incentives align more poorly with the customer's interest. For example, the refrigerator manufacturer now has an incentive to increase food spoilage to increase ad conversions. >Having a subscription can actually be beneficial in terms of incentive to keep up supporting the product…

No I pay for subscription for them to not show ads and for them to have an incentive to keep the product working well as long as possible.

Because if the product stops working, I also stop paying subscription.

Right now there's an incentive to make short lasting products to have customer buy a new one, but with subscription the incentive changes.

Re: Goodbye non-KISS appliances

#477

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get why it matters so much to people. It's all just incentives aligning and how the deals work. Having a subscription can actually be beneficial in terms of incentive to keep up supporting the product in my view. If it's a huge problem psychologically for you, maybe you can just take the following 5 years or whatever time you estimate you will be using the product and calculate that into the base price to mak…

> I don't get why it matters so much to people. It's all just incentives aligning and how the deals work. Think of it like working conditions getting increasingly poor and abusive year over year, while your salary stays fixed. It matters not because the deals are increasingly shit and abusive, but also because them being much better is within most of our's living memories, and there's no actual reason for things to g…

That would not be a problem of subscriptions though.

If they can just keep increasing prices unfairly, then it means something is wrong with free market, not with subscriptions.

Re: Goodbye non-KISS appliances

#478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At times before now there was no indication that we could be seeing an acceleration of tech as is happening now. So there was no hope for people to see what is possible for us now. They sure were trying to figure out life. They just didn't have the right knowledge at the time. But now that we do, I do think we should figure out what is going on here. I don't knownif you can call it religion or whatever, but the point…

I don't care enough to sacrifice my present to pursue some crazy Singularity and I certainly am not interested in sacrificing myself to give so much power to any single corporation, no matter how "good" their promises are. Please, stop falling for the Kurzweil and Singularity crap. It's just the nerd version of the coming of the Messiah, with an extra dose of hubris on top.

> Please, stop falling for the Kurzweil and Singularity crap. It's just the nerd version of the coming of the Messiah, with an extra dose of hubris on top.

I don't know who you are talking about. It's my own thoughts. I'm not falling for at least anyone else's crap. If it's crap, then it's my own crap that I'm falling for.

> I don't care enough to sacrifice my present to pursue some crazy Singularity and I certainly am not interested in sacrificing myself to give so much power to any single corporation, no matter how "good" their promises are.

I think there should then be initiative to include everyone in the World in the top tech companies. E.g. similarly you give everyone in the World a right to buy in to an ownership in limited amount given such a thing should occur. But every individual in the World can only buy one, equal unit.

This is why I buy those call options myself, but I think everyone in the World should have such call options.

Re: Goodbye non-KISS appliances

#479
Appliance makers could build the simplest possible appliance, then build a simple monitoring system (like OBD2 in cars) to tell us what is wrong. They could even agree on a standard interface so anyone with a computer or phone can see the live data and diagnose bad sensors. They could make that OBD2-like system relatively secure by having it only sense and report without being able to make adjustments or screw things up. They could make it so you can tell the appliance to ignore a bad sensor, so we do not get OBD2-like problems where bad sensors are more common and more expensive than real problems.

Nobody has done it, yet.

I have hope for the Chinese to figure this out and create a national standard.

Re: Goodbye non-KISS appliances

#480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't care enough to sacrifice my present to pursue some crazy Singularity and I certainly am not interested in sacrificing myself to give so much power to any single corporation, no matter how "good" their promises are. Please, stop falling for the Kurzweil and Singularity crap. It's just the nerd version of the coming of the Messiah, with an extra dose of hubris on top.

> Please, stop falling for the Kurzweil and Singularity crap. It's just the nerd version of the coming of the Messiah, with an extra dose of hubris on top. I don't know who you are talking about. It's my own thoughts. I'm not falling for at least anyone else's crap. If it's crap, then it's my own crap that I'm falling for. > I don't care enough to sacrifice my present to pursue some crazy Singularity and I certainly…

You keep arguing based on how you believe things should be instead of how they actually are. Do you realize how pointless this discussion is? And unless you have a way to show you are actively working to bring your ideas into reality, do you realize how naive and/or full of BS you sound?
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