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Hertz to sell 20k EVs in shift back to gas-powered cars

bloomberg.com

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Re: Hertz to sell 20k EVs in shift back to gas-powered cars

#471

Post by kirse »

dcchambers wrote: post #453

Im bullish on EVs but I feel like rental cars are one of the worst places for the current generation of EVs. EVs are best for the types of driving we do on a day-to-day basis. Short commutes in areas we know well. Charge at home over night and 95% of the year you never worry about charging. Renting a car means I'm usually either driving long distances or im somewhere new and I don't know about the local charging infr…

I feel like rental cars are one of the worst places for the current generation of EVs.

This was my recent experience. I was offered an EV car as a rental upgrade in a major city because the local rental place didn't have an EV charger. I figured what the hell because it was a relaxed holiday vacation. Turns out that was a hilariously bad idea.

Ended up spending at least 5-6 hours of my week vacation trying to avoid the EV going to 0% battery. Half of that time was spent on Google Maps - trying to find chargers with the right plug, ones that aren't broken, ones that were available, downloading various apps, etc. Then when I did find a charger I sat in the parking lot waiting for it to juice up.

All of that effort and I still could only give myself the miles back that I spent finding chargers, it was even funnier when the cold weather took miles away. Finally ended up luckily finding one at a local movie theater and asked family to shuttle me back and forth because of how long it took to charge.

Not a knock on EV's really, mostly the charging infrastructure and the rental experience.

Re: Hertz to sell 20k EVs in shift back to gas-powered cars

#472

Post by mvdtnz »

Underphil wrote: post #393
dougmwne wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, because the Model 3 incorporates quite a bit of aluminum in the body. This is good for weight savings, but more difficult to work with. The root cause is that batteries are too heavy so other components must be made lighter.

Do you know why it's harder to work with? My untrained brain would have assumed it was easier, what with it being more malleable.

A lot of guys are telling you it's because it the workability of aluminium which is purified bullshit. Panelbeaters rarely work panels nowadays, they replace them. The problem with Tesla is that they're gaping assholes when it comes to supplying parts to third party repairers. Repairing Teslas is expensive because that's how Tesla wants it to be.

Re: Hertz to sell 20k EVs in shift back to gas-powered cars

#473

Post by NewJazz »

gnicholas wrote: post #423
atkailash wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t see how that’s different than needing to figure out gas station locations and not knowing how much you’ll use between points since you don’t know traffic or efficiency of that vehicle.

I don't love looking for gas stations before returning a vehicle, but I know I can find one within a few minutes, they will pretty much always be "functional" and available, and it will take only a few minutes to fill up. With an EV, I might have to go 10+ minutes out of my way (doubled for roundtrip), they might not work, and they might be full. And if I have to return with 80% charge or higher, it could easily take…

If you return with <80%, what happens? Do they charge a flat fee or by the kWh? Most cars will taper charging speeds as you approach 80, 90 %. And then you have to drive from the charger to the car rental place. Hmm.

Re: Hertz to sell 20k EVs in shift back to gas-powered cars

#474

Post by rurp »

dylan604 wrote: post #432
ibejoeb wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a brand popped up and offered a gasoline ICE with old toyota-level reliability and longevity, and without electronics (save for maybe bluetooth for some music) I'd pay a sizeable premium for it.

I'd be fine ditching bluetooth. I'd be fine with an AUX cable. Most people have their phone on some charging mount anyways, so there's already a cable running to the location so wireless isn't much of an advantage here

Yep I can confirm this works quite well since it's what I used for over a decade until I got a new car a couple years ago. Bluetooth can be annoyingly flaky in many cars but plugging in a cable literally just works. My old sound system and traditional controls worked great and I have considered replacing the more modern system that came with my current car with something more like the old one.

Re: Hertz to sell 20k EVs in shift back to gas-powered cars

#475

Post by citiguy »

m463 wrote: post #467
dcchambers wrote: post #453

Im bullish on EVs but I feel like rental cars are one of the worst places for the current generation of EVs. EVs are best for the types of driving we do on a day-to-day basis. Short commutes in areas we know well. Charge at home over night and 95% of the year you never worry about charging. Renting a car means I'm usually either driving long distances or im somewhere new and I don't know about the local charging infr…

My experience renting a model 3 from hertz was both positive and negative. At first, it was hard since I've never owned a model 3. Even if you are a model 3 owner, you are probably used to using your phone as the key. They give you a keycard. anyway, I didn't know how to lock the doors. finally I figured out the lock symbol on the central display and locked the doors. But when I got out, they were unlocked again. The…

I rented a Model 3 from Hertz last year and drove about 120 miles in it. Due to the super cold weather (like 12 degrees), plus the fact that I drove in the mountains in New England, and I used the heat (it was freezing and I had my child with me), I had the charge the car 1/2 way there, which made me stop in the middle of nowhere for 30 minutes while I waited at a super charger. Honestly this experience stunk.

I think the Tesla is nice if you don't need to go anywhere too far. For trips stick to gasoline.

Re: Hertz to sell 20k EVs in shift back to gas-powered cars

#476

Post by smohare »

citiguy wrote: post #475
m463 wrote: post #467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My experience renting a model 3 from hertz was both positive and negative. At first, it was hard since I've never owned a model 3. Even if you are a model 3 owner, you are probably used to using your phone as the key. They give you a keycard. anyway, I didn't know how to lock the doors. finally I figured out the lock symbol on the central display and locked the doors. But when I got out, they were unlocked again. The…

I rented a Model 3 from Hertz last year and drove about 120 miles in it. Due to the super cold weather (like 12 degrees), plus the fact that I drove in the mountains in New England, and I used the heat (it was freezing and I had my child with me), I had the charge the car 1/2 way there, which made me stop in the middle of nowhere for 30 minutes while I waited at a super charger. Honestly this experience stunk. I thin…

There’s tons of folk routinely driving EVs from the Bay Area to Tahoe / Yosemite.

It’s like any inconvenience though. I used to bicycle commute everywhere that was within about a 20 mile radius. Rain, shine, or snow. This was so routine that it never bothered me. But if you’re a person who hasn’t ridden a bike in ten years and I asked you to adopt my routine, I can’t imagine you’d be terribly happy.

Re: Hertz to sell 20k EVs in shift back to gas-powered cars

#477

Post by bombcar »

cyberax wrote: post #291
atkailash wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t see how that’s different than needing to figure out gas station locations and not knowing how much you’ll use between points since you don’t know traffic or efficiency of that vehicle.

Realistically, unless you're in Manhattan or in the middle of nowhere, you're never more than 10-20 minutes away from a gas station.

I still remember the “last chance gas, no services next 90 miles” that you can still encounter in the high desert. But most places people drive there are stations everywhere.

And if you ARE going into the wilderness, you can easily bring a few Jerry cans.

Re: Hertz to sell 20k EVs in shift back to gas-powered cars

#478

Post by sroussey »

hehhehaha wrote: post #457
NickM wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

where a car is salvaged, we must crystallize at once any difference between our carrying value and the market value of that car Hang on though, this part has nothing to do with repair costs. This just sounds like an accounting issue, right? If anything I would expect this to benefit Hertz since they could write off the higher loss in their taxes immediately, instead of waiting until future years to write the value of…

This obviously decreases their margins since the insurance premiums go up. And if they self insure as the other guy claims, then the repair costs come straight out of their wallet.

I can’t imagine the premium for a cybertruck.

Re: Hertz to sell 20k EVs in shift back to gas-powered cars

#479

Post by kccqzy »

distortedsignal wrote: post #335
ender341341 wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other possible reasons - We're in a recession (at least if you aren't upper middle class or above) - Dealers are still acting like there's a supply shortage, so prices are still up but lots are full - Everyone (pretty much) but tesla has commited to migrating to NACS, so if you buy a car now you'll need an adapter, and depending on where you are tesla's chargers are have half the speed if you're using the adapter (li…

Tesla's changers are *half(?) the speed...? I hadn't heard this.

Not exactly half the speed, but that the vehicle needs to boost the voltage coming from the charger in order to charge the battery. For some cars this is limited to around 100kW, way less than charging the battery from a sufficiently high voltage directly.

For high end cars like Porsche Taycan you can configure the rated wattage of this DC-DC converter.

Re: Hertz to sell 20k EVs in shift back to gas-powered cars

#480

Post by kccqzy »

AYBABTME wrote: post #366
ender341341 wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

most existing tesla chargers are 400v (I believe the cybertruck is their first to use 800v), so for other fast charging cars (like kia/hyundai GMP based ev6/ioniq 5) you only get half the speed, so as they update this will start to fall away as an issue.

The existing chargers for these cars are much slower than the slower Tesla chargers, so it's not like these cars will face an overall worse experience.

No, these cars charge at maximum 240kW when the voltage is sufficient. But on a Tesla charger without sufficient voltage they charge at 100kW. Therefore the experience is significantly worse.
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