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Zoom terms now allow training AI on user content with no opt out

explore.zoom.us

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Re: Zoom terms now allow training AI on user content with no opt out

#471

Post by aparnabzoom »

tailspin2019 wrote: post #464
aparnabzoom wrote: post #462

Hi there - this is Aparna from Zoom, our Chief Operating Officer. Thank you for your care and concern for our customers - we are grateful for the opportunity to double click on how we treat customer content. To clarify, Zoom customers decide whether to enable generative AI features (recently launched on a free trial basis) and separately whether to share customer content with Zoom for product improvement purposes. Al…

When you say “Zoom customers decide … whether to share customer content with Zoom”… Can you elaborate on whether this is opt-out or opt-in? Does a new user who starts to use Zoom today have this turned on by default? Usually when companies say things like “customers decide” it can gloss over a lot of detail like hidden settings that default to “on” or other potentially misleading / dark patterns. Given the obvious in…

Hi there - this is opt in. A new user starting to use Zoom today does not have this turned on by default.

Re: Zoom terms now allow training AI on user content with no opt out

#472

Post by tailspin2019 »

aparnabzoom wrote: post #471
tailspin2019 wrote: post #464

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you say “Zoom customers decide … whether to share customer content with Zoom”… Can you elaborate on whether this is opt-out or opt-in? Does a new user who starts to use Zoom today have this turned on by default? Usually when companies say things like “customers decide” it can gloss over a lot of detail like hidden settings that default to “on” or other potentially misleading / dark patterns. Given the obvious in…

Hi there - this is opt in. A new user starting to use Zoom today does not have this turned on by default.

Thanks for participating in the discussion here, it’s helpful.

Clause 10.4 in your terms seems to grant you rights to do pretty much anything with “Customer Content” (including the AI training specifically being talked about).

So I’m still a bit confused because regardless of any opt in mechanism in your product, these usage terms don’t seem to be predicated on the user having done anything to opt in other than ostensibly agreeing to your terms of service?

In other words, as a Zoom user who has deliberately NOT opted in to anything, I still don’t have a lot of confidence in the rights being granted to you via your standard terms over my content.

The wording of the terms imply that you don’t actually need me to opt in for you to have these rights over my data?

Re: Zoom terms now allow training AI on user content with no opt out

#473

Post by webmink »

aparnabzoom wrote: post #462

Hi there - this is Aparna from Zoom, our Chief Operating Officer. Thank you for your care and concern for our customers - we are grateful for the opportunity to double click on how we treat customer content. To clarify, Zoom customers decide whether to enable generative AI features (recently launched on a free trial basis) and separately whether to share customer content with Zoom for product improvement purposes. Al…

Thanks for commenting. The issue is not with using AI features though - it is with the Terms granting you unrestricted and eternal use to our conversations to train your AI and potentially disclose our work to your other customers.

Re: Zoom terms now allow training AI on user content with no opt out

#474

Post by haldujai »

vondur wrote: post #470
danShumway wrote: post #397

Tangentially related, but a number of telehealth operations with hospitals/therapists/etc... use Zoom -- I suspect because their clients can connect without an app or an account over a browser. When you join a Zoom session over the browser, you don't sign a TOS. And I assume that actual licensed medical establishments are under their own TOS provisions that are compatible with HIPPA requirements. Training on voice-to…

Zoom has a specific version for HIPPA regulations.

Forgive me for being pedantic but this is like nails on a chalkboard to me.

HIPAA is the correct abbreviation of the Health Information Portability and Accountability Act which as an aside doesn't necessarily preclude someone from training on patient data.

HIPPA is the unnecessarily capitalized spelling of a (quite adorable) crustacean found in the Indo-Pacific and consumed in an Indonesian delicacy known as yutuk.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippa_adactyla

Re: Zoom terms now allow training AI on user content with no opt out

#475

Post by IsTom »

johndhi wrote: post #449
IsTom wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All and any personal information that is used for training might get reproduced later. I am not excited about somebody else asking AI personal questions about me.

So it's a fear for generative AI specifically. Because there are other AI training examples without this concern present.

In my case mostly yes, though you have to be careful with classifiers too as you can pull out a lot of things with just yes/no answers.

Re: Zoom terms now allow training AI on user content with no opt out

#476

Post by Gasp0de »

ebiester wrote: post #159
Gasp0de wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I know it's more comfortable that way, but if you have to decide between giving all your data from all your meetings to a random US company and a slight annoyance whenever you do conferences with more than 500(!) participants, the choice is pretty simple to me. Giving all the data to zoom probably means also giving it to most US law enforcement agencies (should they request it), that would be a big no no for me.

For the corporate or training use case, this is not a problem. If you are worried about US law agencies, you shouldn't be using any system that isn't rooted in face to face communication for anything sensitive. (And even that is suspect with as small as bugged devices are today.)

There is a huge difference between requesting data that has already been collected and requesting Zoom/Microsoft/Google to record future data. The latter probably requires some serious intent. And of course, if I would want to be entirely safe from US law enforcement espionage then I would need to not use computers but whose use case is that?

Re: Zoom terms now allow training AI on user content with no opt out

#477

Post by Gasp0de »

lukeschlather wrote: post #434
Gasp0de wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I know it's more comfortable that way, but if you have to decide between giving all your data from all your meetings to a random US company and a slight annoyance whenever you do conferences with more than 500(!) participants, the choice is pretty simple to me. Giving all the data to zoom probably means also giving it to most US law enforcement agencies (should they request it), that would be a big no no for me.

You say "just more comfortable" but if you have two streams and one of them is on a channel you know to be unreliable (Jitsi) it's pretty guaranteed the unreliable stream is going to be down a significant percentage of the time. If you're a company with 500 people this isn't a comfort question, you're wasting probably hundreds of hours of your employees' time.

I think we're not on the same page about Jitsi being unreliable. In fact, it has been more reliable for me than Zoom in the past. Maybe due to the fact that I'm running Linux, I don't know, I haven't tried either on Windows.

Re: Zoom terms now allow training AI on user content with no opt out

#478

Post by lewhoo »

jimmaswell wrote: post #377
lewhoo wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh not the "like a human" again. But would you really allow any human on every zoom call ? I think this is a good example where this analogy breaks pretty obviously.

It's the best of both worlds because an AI isn't a human - an AI learning from your private conversation is like letting a cat watch you go to the bathroom.

Now tell me with a straight face it doesn't feel a bit awkward to let your pet follow you to the bathroom. But on a more serious note, if the cat could convey messages of what he had heard, bits and peaces but also whole chunks it would've been a better analogy I think.

Re: Zoom terms now allow training AI on user content with no opt out

#479

Post by raphman »

Hamcha wrote: post #158

How does this work with GDPR? As far as I'm aware (not a lawyer) you must provide a easy opt-out from data collection and usage, plus you must not force your employees into such agreements[1]. ChatGPT already got blocked over GDPR issues, and with new regulations coming forward I really don't see how they think this can be the right call. 1. https://commission.europa.eu/law/law-topic/data-protection/r...

At least the German ToS (updated April 10) do not contain any AI provisions.

https://explore.zoom.us/de/privacy/

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