Isn't this easily "defeated" by the use of a web proxy? Won't corporate web proxy software just replace the token with a generic company token?
Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium
471–480 of 876 posts
Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium
#472There are many arguments against this but not many brought the implications for search engines. If websites implement this, it will effectively make building a web search engine impossible for new entrants. The current players can whitelist/attest their own clients while categorizing every other scraping clients as bots. If not for other reasons, I can't see how Google a search company can be allowed to push somethin…
Is it possible for them to implement this API in such a way that it will fail 5% of the time or so, making it impossible for websites to deny individuals based on failing attestation?
https://github.com/RupertBenWiser/Web-Environment-Integrity/...
Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium
#473Earlier quoted context omitted.
I switched to Firefox for the idealogical reasons above and was pleasantly surprised to find that it was a net improvement. The only site I have compatibility issues with on desktop is MS Teams and even then it's only for voice/video calls, everything else works fine. Firefox Android is a slightly less happy place. The password manager doesn't work very well (am moving away from the built-in one) and I can't log in o…
Interesting. Firefox android works great for me, but Firefox windows gets very slow on my machine. I don't use their password manager on either, though, so I can't attest to that.
> but Firefox windows gets very slow on my machine.
This is why I don't use FF (although I'm on Linux). It's unusably slow for me. My experience is not the most common one (indicating that there's something about my ecosystem that FF hates), but I haven't been able to make FF work in any of the releases starting a couple of years back, I think.
I don't browse on my phone at all, so I won't be using FF there purely for that reason.
Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium
#474Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't think it's double-think, it's just a lack of consequential thinking. I believe the writers of the spec when they say that they just want to be able to see which ad views are real or not. They even lay out some (far too weak) ideas to keep the system from being mandatory and abusable. But they don't realize just how quickly things will go out of hand once the rest of the organization realizes what they have cr…
> it's just a lack of consequential thinking Googlers tend to trust google, even when its readily apparent tool/system design obviously puts them in a control position above anyone else in matters that extend beyond their own walls. I've only met a few that will coyly admit they don't trust google, but maintain they have to keep up appearances. I think it also explains their outspokenness on societal issues outside g…
Exactly. This is common also with other tech companies. I knew an ex-Facebook employee who was defending them at the height of their "Facebook Research proxy monitoring underage kids traffic" scandal. I'm sure his team was trying to be moral in their work, but people don't realize this doesn't generalize to massive corporations or even that in their bubble their morals may be perverted.
Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium
#475Earlier quoted context omitted.
? This is provably false. FTC filed 6 months ago. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/24/technology/google-ads-law... n.b. I've found a lot of comfort by conciously rolling away from any subject that leads me to do "They"-ing, i.e. name an enormously large group, then talk about them as a unit. The more I avoid it, the more I realize how prevalent it became and drives how a lot of us feel society shifted.
It's called saving appearances.
So your position is, they'll never do it, and if they did, it's fake. Sounds like self-peasantization.
Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium
#476Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Google needs to be broken up. To make it explicit: the only way this happens is by Americans voting for it. The FTC has been more active on anti-trust issues in the past two years than at any time in the past 30. That's a direct result of the 2020 election. Elections matter.
The FTC isn't going to do anything as Google/Alphabet is a big donor to the Democrats. https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/alphabet-inc/recipients?id=... Here is them lobbying specifically around antitrust reform legislation: https://www.opensecrets.org/federal-lobbying/bills/specific_...
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Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium
#477The web is not dying, it is being killed. And the people that are killing it have names and addresses. Shame on Rayan Kanso Shame on Peter Pakkenberg Shame on Dmitry Gozman Shame on Richard Coles Shame on Kinuko Yasuda Shame on Rupert Ben Wiser: https://github.com/RupertBenWiser/Web-Environment-Integrity Google needs to be broken up.
Currently development and standardization occurs in the open, on GitHub and elsewhere. When it's decided that's no longer possible, I hope you realize that this kind of targeted harassment is what led to its demise.
Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium
#478I feel like I have to repeat this, since so much is at stake here, where it is about the preservation of the web as we know it today, at the peril of having it turned into yet another walled garden: The only way around the dystopia this will lead to is to constantly and relentlessly shame and even harass all those involved in helping create it. The scolding in the issue tracker of that wretched "project" shall flow l…
Ah yes. The "Uncle Ted" approach, but a bit more mild. At what point do we go full Ted?
Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium
#479Earlier quoted context omitted.
Firefox was better than IE6, but it was the sheer force of nerds that dragged it across the finish line because neither the enterprise nor the general population otherwise cared.
What does that even mean? People used Firefox because it was better. It's that simple. No one forced anyone to use anything.
People used Firefox because it was installed on their computers by the neighborhood nerd. Something similar must happen now. People have to cease using gmail, google search and google maps.
Alternatives need to be built and advertised.
Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium
#480Earlier quoted context omitted.
By showing ads from the “AdSense Company” and sending your personal information to them? Meet the new boss…
Sure, but on the positive side, the Chrome Company has its own incentives. Today, Google can provide Chrome as a loss-leader, making up for the "free" browser with ad revenue. The new Chrome Company can't operate that way. It needs to make money on its own. Perhaps MS Bing offers more money. Or they build their own ad system. Or pivot into some other business area. Anyway, I don't think anybody is arguing Google/Alph…
> Perhaps MS Bing offers more money.
> Or they build their own ad system.
And we still are being tracked by BigTech with the same business model that people object when Google does it.
> Or pivot into some other business area.
And what other method do you suggest for funding besides ads or people paying for the browser? The second option has never been a long term successful business for browsers?