The goal of Mass surveillance is not to fight spies and pedophiles. The goal is to have a dossier on everyone.
Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption
471–480 of 785 posts
Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption
#472Earlier quoted context omitted.
Inversely, is the UK so much worse off for not having a few games in their market? Neither is so big it can go without the other, not only the UK.
Individually no, but in aggregate... A few games here, iMessage, Facetime, Whatsapp maybe, some other internet products, etc Does it boast something else to make up for the loss of these things? Trading something for nothing always feels kinda bad. And if the trade is "We stood up for the right thing with respect to Cloud Gaming monopolization", you constituents might be kinda pissed after a while. You know the old a…
in reality another large company will enter the void where apple was with the correct regulatory approval and take the entire market
Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption
#473Every generation has its PGP / Clipper Chip / etc battle. Eventually we'll lose. But hopefully we're not ready to give up yet.
I read today that the younger generation grew up with and is so used to surveillance they don't care. It's just a thing. But old codgers like me most definitely care.
Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption
#474Earlier quoted context omitted.
E2EE is a true/false label. Either it is, or it ain’t. It is not mathematically possible to selectively break E2EE. If it’s broken, it’s not E2EE.
There are stronger and weaker forms of it, though. Apple holds the keys to the identity (public key) exchange in iMessage. You're still trusting Apple not to mitm your conversations, but at least they wouldn't be able to do this retroactively. Other E2EE messaging apps at least have a way to verify each others' pubkeys, but it's not required and very few people do it.
Apple previously announced their "iMessage Contact Key Verification" (https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2022/12/apple-advances-user-s...). Rumors are that it's coming in iOS 16.6 which may drop any time now.
Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption
#475I feel we've been collectively losing the battle to keep our conversations private. The anti-encryption laws are likely vocally opposed only by a minority, while the majority believes they had no privacy to begin with and governments can read your messages at a whim. And perhaps that's true to some extent. But since most people believe the battle is lost, moreso that this has always been the status quo, then any batt…
To me, there is one big argument for privacy: You never know what your govewrnment will change into in the next few years. This basic argument for encryption is often raised in combination with countries which we already consider non-free. But, frankly, I have finally learned the true meaning of this message during COVID times. I would never have expected society deteriorating into this fear/hate driven, media induced witchhunt. Since that experience, I basically expect anything frm the government, which makes the argument for being able to encrypt communication even stronger for me.
Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption
#476Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Also, is CSAM the motivating factor for UK or do they want backdoor for more general national security surveillance Baroness Beeban Kidron has been lobbying for stringent anti-CSAM measures in tech for years [0]. She's lead a major pressure campaign in the US, Canada, and the UK for years [1]. Her charity 5Rights and WeProtect both have been able to back Labour and the Tories so she's able to lobby across the aisle…
I know I’m from a different culture - but I don’t understand how the UK still has the House of Lords in 2023. It just doesn’t seem aligned with the principles of a republic or democracy to have unelected lifetime members who are able to draft legislation.
it's fine because it's subordinate to the commons in every way
it acts as a brake for controversial legislation, which is generally a good thing
Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption
#477I feel we've been collectively losing the battle to keep our conversations private. The anti-encryption laws are likely vocally opposed only by a minority, while the majority believes they had no privacy to begin with and governments can read your messages at a whim. And perhaps that's true to some extent. But since most people believe the battle is lost, moreso that this has always been the status quo, then any batt…
> The anti-encryption laws are likely vocally opposed only by a minority
I'd like you to back up that claim because from what I had seen about surveillance and terrorism most people supported it(even the patriot act had popular support in the polls). Only people smart enough to know about encryption oppose this. Most people who don't understand tech pretty much assume the government is already looking at messages. Long before snowden, illegal phone tapping was a public secret people were fine with so long as the government doesn't abuse that access. Even before computers, they had secret rooms where they opened to read people's letters without a warrant. Not one major political candidate that I can recall since 9/11 has mentioned expiring the patriot act or investingating the NSA and recommending criminal charges in their campaign, nor does it get brought up in their town halls.
Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption
#478Earlier quoted context omitted.
In fairness, Meta has said the same thing re: WhatsApp, so while Apple deserves _some_ credit here for sticking to their principles, they're not exactly leading the pack. Which brings home the point that if _Meta_ isn't onboard with your privacy-obliterating proposal then you know you've really lost the plot...
Is WhatsApp still requiring access to your phone's address book before it allows you to use it? It did last time I tried it. There is no chance in hell I'm giving it all the phone numbers, emails and names of people that trusted me by giving me their details. At the time I set up a virtual android environment (samsung called it knox) just to setup WhatsApp in a way it couldn't access my phone's address book. It is ex…
I recently had to install whatsapp. No asking for contacts at all. The web app (via a qr code) is ok, and i run that in a vm set up just for wa.
I don't let friends and fam know i have it...I prefer keeping out of dramas, 'news', and memes. I did check that i do not appear as 'x is online' on anyone's phone (but only checked with the person i needed to wa with).
The app isn't bad, tbf. It's just not for me.
Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption
#479Earlier quoted context omitted.
There are stronger and weaker forms of it, though. Apple holds the keys to the identity (public key) exchange in iMessage. You're still trusting Apple not to mitm your conversations, but at least they wouldn't be able to do this retroactively. Other E2EE messaging apps at least have a way to verify each others' pubkeys, but it's not required and very few people do it.
Apple previously announced their "iMessage Contact Key Verification" ( https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2022/12/apple-advances-user-s... ). Rumors are that it's coming in iOS 16.6 which may drop any time now.
That's cool. The article mentions a more common attack I forgot about, someone managing to add a new device to someone's account and get messages on there.
Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption
#480Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think if you could build such a thing they would be banned on the same grounds.
It already exists. You can have a door with a steel core. It's not illegal. https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/comments/zcvwno/steel_rein...
Are the windows and walls of the said house also made of steel? In that video, why are the armed personnel so obsessed with entering through the door?