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Reddit subs with millions of followers plan to extend the blackout indefinitely

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Re: Reddit subs with millions of followers plan to extend the blackout indefinitely

#471

I am unable to understand this bruhaha about reddit as I am an occasional user of this website and mostly in lurking mode. Was there a promise made to those 3rd party app authors and users that their access would be perpetual, not to be taken away from them, no matter what ? I don't think any for-profit company makes such promises. If you play in someone's walled garden, you should be ready to see them change the rul…

> If you play in someone's walled garden, you should be ready to see them change the rules as they see fit. And no one should be surprised when I pick up my ball and walk home.

You sure can and nobody can blame you.

Re: Reddit subs with millions of followers plan to extend the blackout indefinitely

#472
post #225

I bit the bullet yesterday and just called it quits. I was there for a very long time (before it was even “launched” officially). So I do it with a heavy heart, but I don't think there’s any way of going back for them now. Its been a downward trend for literally years at this point. https://imgur.com/gallery/JhsPQnI

I went through multiple accounts since 2009, first one I closed was due to harassment as a result of posting about the Xbox One (which wasn't released back then)... reddit always had extremely cringy but popular sides to it (Unidan, Boston Marathon witch hunt) and since the very beginning the decisions of the leadership have felt immature, off and wrong. Reddit's leadership has always prevented reddit from being a th…

You just hit the nail on the head. I scroll Reddit every day looking for that gold nugget post but most posts are just, like you say, poop

Re: Reddit subs with millions of followers plan to extend the blackout indefinitely

#473

I am unable to understand this bruhaha about reddit as I am an occasional user of this website and mostly in lurking mode. Was there a promise made to those 3rd party app authors and users that their access would be perpetual, not to be taken away from them, no matter what ? I don't think any for-profit company makes such promises. If you play in someone's walled garden, you should be ready to see them change the rul…

If they had made prudent allowances for uses of the API other than 3rd party frontends, this likely would have been a much smaller deal. Moderators(who are doing tons of free work to make reddit a tolerable place) use API based tools to help them moderate. If reddit is going to make their (volunteer!) job harder, why shouldn't they just pack up and leave? The official reddit app reportedly does not make adequate acco…

Bad faith huh ?

()Allowances ? You mean don't ask them for more money, even though those apps are making money. How is this a good business idea? I mean for Reddit. ---------------- ()Moderators are not forced to work for free. If they do, they are doing this willingly and if they choose to quit, nobody is blaming them. ---------------- ()If original reddit app doesn't make accommodations for handicapped people, it is neither the duty of the 3rd party apps to provide them nor to enforce them. It is just a fringe angle reddit opponents are bringing forward. It is not why this ordeal got so out of proportion. ---------------- ()... we won't make our app accessible, we'll give permission to do free labor for us if you want, but don't you dare try to get paid for it. ... Although it may not be the wisest idea, the owners of the walled garden can say this and it is up to those non-compensated moderators to stay or leave. It has nothing to do with the 3rd party apps ---------------- (*)After all, is said and done, reddit wants more money out of the pot. So does the 3rd party app developers. It is like a Mexican standoff. And I can guarantee you, first party to blink will not be reddit.

Re: Reddit subs with millions of followers plan to extend the blackout indefinitely

#474
post #29

Reddit would be infinitely better without any subreddits bigger than about 100k subscribers.

Reddit would be better with better moderation. Would be great if there was a clever way (machine learning?) to identify and remove all low effort posts and reposts. Would also be better if there was a clever way to detect and ban karma whores and users who just post crap to build karma and sell the account.

All the big subs are garbage these days

Re: Reddit subs with millions of followers plan to extend the blackout indefinitely

#475
post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are not enough volunteers to handle the load. Companies depend on free labor to moderate things and will never be able to afford the actual cost of doing business without that free labor. I currently moderate 2 subs (down from 5). I'm looking to offload those 2 without having them get banned for being unmoderated (again).

You say this, but it’s only a matter of time until we get AI moderation.

I expect that AI will increase the need for human moderation. LLMs are better at producing passable spam than identifying it, so any gains in AI moderation will be more than offset. I actually worry that AI spam will become too powerful for even good human+AI moderation and we'll see the death of high quality open discussions online.

Re: Reddit subs with millions of followers plan to extend the blackout indefinitely

#476
post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You have to suffer through idiotic opinions if you expose yourself to new ideas. There is never any alternative to that and there is no magic moderator that can make this decision in your stead. It isn't any more complicated than that really. The main issue with that is that it assumes anyone on the internet is arguing anything in good faith. Boosting checkmarks has turned twitter to nearly unusable to actually unu…

There is no trivial way to detect motivation, on the contrary leveraging the accusation of someone arguing in bad faith is usually seen as ending an intellectual exchange. To be realistic, this can be that case, especially on the net, and there are ways you can make an educated guess. But it stays a guess and in the end I want to do the guessing myself. It cannot be outsourced aside from the most trivial cases like s…

This seems very naive to me. There are enough people yelling "OK Groomer" at me on certain platforms that I know the signal to noise ratio is bad enough that engaging is at best a waste of time and at worst getting more soundbites than I could possibly debunk, so I lose the optics part of the debate by default.

See "Never Play Defense" from the alt-right playbook: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmVkJvieaOA

And as an aside - HN is not guilt free on this topic. There's a general tendency for comments to go right past the topic even outside this. For instance, every remote work thread turns into a generalized remote vs onsite debate, without the specifics of the article being weighed in. Even worse, HN also has a tendency to devolve into calling authors of posts deranged (or deranged, but with nicer choice of words) more for their identity and politics rather than the words they wrote, as was the case with Alyssa Rosenzweig's article being posted a few weeks ago.

It simply isn't viable to assume good faith for everyone. I often (unwiesely) get into fights with transphobes that I shouldn't, and I had maybe 2 insightful well-reflected discussions over the past 10 years. Sometimes they'll complement me on not fitting their expectation of an "SJW" (which is, presumably, a screaming child), but then go on to call me a slur anyway. And when I say slur, I am very positive that this is the right classification. Unambiguously.

I recommend the entire Alt-Right playbook series, in fact. A lot of these concepts are not limited to the alt-right and are often used incidentally by everyone, but it is important to know when you have no chance at rhetoric overcoming... anything. I guess sometimes the sword is mightier than the pen, especially in a post-fact world.

Re: Reddit subs with millions of followers plan to extend the blackout indefinitely

#477
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I added reddit.com to my ublock filters - it was kind of an automatic click a few times a day and it's been a nice way to break the habit so strongly. I've got friends doing the same, and our microcommunity has formed around another platform already, after collectively losing reddit. It was so clearly a half-assed, badly thought out policy. No mention of mod tools. No mention of accessibility tools. No mention of res…

I just logged out of my account everywhere, and turned off "remember me". It's shocking how I'm catching myself just reflexively, almost subconsciously alt-tabbing to Firefox and typing "reddit.com". Thanks, /u/spez, for helping me break the habit!

I don’t know why they didn’t just offer API access at a fair price, it seems like it would have resulted in a better outcome than their current rock and hard place decision between backpedaling and never getting rid of the API awhile unprofitable, or getting rid of it and creating a diggv4 fiasco of the site being used to promote leaving the site.

Re: Reddit subs with millions of followers plan to extend the blackout indefinitely

#478
post #23
post #18

... until they just take over the moderation of their largest communities and this whole thing ends. I mean what's so magical about the moderation of something like r/videos other than the mods being free labor for Reddit?

Moderation can make or break a subreddit

Generally I’d say moderators can break a subreddit far more easily than they can make it, but that’s a danger of a big mod cull.

Re: Reddit subs with millions of followers plan to extend the blackout indefinitely

#479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, downvoting is a bad idea across the board for silencing people that are not in the majority group-think. You don't even have to have a reason to down vote someone.

Do you think Hacker News should get rid of downvoting?

Im not sure, it doesnt seem as bad on hacker news. I agree its really bad on reddit though.

Re: Reddit subs with millions of followers plan to extend the blackout indefinitely

#480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it just happens in the sub as a normal thread - the mods make a post saying they're looking for more mods, people respond. Some subs do the voting offsite, sometimes the mods just pick someone to add.

oh wow. that seems like the sort of critical feature reddit should have built in.

That would require Reddit to write code that meaningfully improves the site, rather than custom emojis and NFT nonsense.
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