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Apple Vision

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Re: Apple Vision

#471

Post by lolinder »

generalizations wrote: post #467
lolinder wrote: post #463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it replace the laptop, or supplement it? From what I've seen it can project one monitor from your existing MacBook into the space. Which means you'll also have to lug your MacBook around in order to use it on the go, and you won't be able to have your 3 monitors, just the one.

It better do more than project monitors. I’ll use it if the whole space around me is one big monitor for overlapping app windows. I want to throw my open apps in a pile to my right, shuffle through them to find what I need, push them all to the side to work on something else, and probably do the virtual equivalent of those meme conspiracy pins-and-string research boards.

From the keynote it looks like you can do that with iOS-style apps, but the Mac screen is treated as just one "app" for the spatial window manager.

Re: Apple Vision

#472

Post by pixl97 »

asim wrote: post #433
pixl97 wrote: post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Getting back to true reality I agree and disagree with this at the same time. Does true reality mean tossing ourselves out in the plains of Africa with a stick fighting off wild animals? I mean ever since that point human intelligence has been on a divergent path from animal intelligence. We create fields and towns and societies that subject us to new realities. Why is one particularly different from another? At the…

I think there's a distinction between the physical and the digital. One might say it's electrons at the end of the day but if you think about how we came into this world and how we've operated for a millennia, putting a veil over our eyes to deny the real world is not part of that. It came much later. Look I'm an engineer like everyone else here. I've grown up on the internet, I've played games consoles since I was a…

> putting a veil over our eyes to deny the real world is not part of that.

Heh, this is carrying off the conversation in a different direction, but actually your consciousness is already doing that full time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HU6LfXNeQM4

Nova- Your Brain: Perception Deception

We really don't see "reality" we see a filtered and limited version of it optimized by evolution to keep us alive on the Serengeti. How useful that actually is in a world that has quickly advanced beyond that point is now the new question.

For example, if we had long term space stations that people were born on, had babies on, and aged and died on, their idea of reality and yours would be significantly different. We define reality by the environment and society around us. Reality doesn't have a fixed value.

Re: Apple Vision

#473

Post by mynameisvlad »

scarface_74 wrote: post #466
mynameisvlad wrote: post #462

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No one in their right mind thought there Apple had realistic expectations of selling 10 of millions of slow 1st generation $10K watches This is not and has never been the bar for "failure". Stop pretending it is just because it makes your argument easier. The comment you replied to states: > The Apple Watch Edition was supposed to grow Apple into a luxury brand and expand its margins massively (you can find many in…

There was no world where a few $10K Apple Watch was going to “expand Apple’s margins” meaningfully compared to the number of iPhones Apple sells. Apple knew this. Anyone who knows anything about finance or simple math knows this.

Got it, so you're just making it up and moving goalposts along the way.

At least you make it plainly obvious.

Re: Apple Vision

#475

Post by joshstrange »

jedberg wrote: post #470
lolinder wrote: post #463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it replace the laptop, or supplement it? From what I've seen it can project one monitor from your existing MacBook into the space. Which means you'll also have to lug your MacBook around in order to use it on the go, and you won't be able to have your 3 monitors, just the one.

The devil is in the details. If you can only mirror your laptop screen, it's not that useful, unless you can run Vision native apps next to it. Then I only have to mirror my laptop for laptop only stuff and can run things like Safari and Notes and Mail all the other stuff separately. If I can set up vision as a 100 inch 8K external monitor, then that becomes much more interesting, because with that much screen real e…

They showed in the demos mixing your desktop screen with native visionOS apps so I'm pretty sure this will be possible. It will be really cool if Apple allows a "Coherence"-type mode (a la Parallels) to pull macOS windows themselves into your space and not just a 2D pane that mirrors your desktop. Even if I can only create some virtual monitors in 3D I'm sold. I'm writing this on a MacBook running 3 external monitors right now and I bought a duplicate setup for my parents house when I had to stay there for about a month for some medical treatments for my dog (closest place that did the procedure) because I didn't want to lose my productivity (also wanted to make it easier to visit them regularly without worrying about work productivity). Being able to just grab my laptop and my Vision Pro would be amazing and would open up travel to way more places.

Re: Apple Vision

#476

Post by WorldMaker »

thechao wrote: post #101
kumarvvr wrote: post #32

Apple has managed to combine AR and VR, by simply re-creating the AR inside the VR. The idea is simple but profound. However, for a company that prides itself on "shared" experiences, the VR is for "lonesome" experiences (watching a movie, watching vacation photos, etc) in some cases, but bang on for others (especially at work) This will spurn the industry, just like the iPhone did, and hopefully, we will have a lot…

Anyone with little kids who like to play outside who also happened to own an Oculus already "knew" this (maybe it's just my family): my kids' favorite game on the Oculus is to spray paint the "play area" in the combined B&W 'outside' rendering. They've always demanded to be able to play beat sabers but also to be able to "see the room", so they can see their friends when they play. They don't even care that it's crap…

Not just too hard, but also maybe too expensive. Vision is using 12 cameras, LIDAR, and a lot of processing power to deliver it. People thought it was crazy when Apple started trying to get 6+ cameras and using 3+ at once for single photos/videos on a single phone (before they started to emulate them after they achieved that). (In some respects the early critiques of, for instance, the iPhone 13 in retrospect maybe start to look like hints of some of Vision's early planning/testing stages.)

Apple seems to have prioritized AR in a way that Meta didn't and that led them to exploring all the costs to do it right. (You can argue that Microsoft was also paying attention as their Mixed Reality-focused playbook resembles what Apple seems to be playing at. Microsoft just saw the costs as a reason to focus first on Enterprise customers. Apple seems to have the gumption to try to make this a potentially accessible to consumers play from Day One, including involving Disney to signal that. That's an interesting bet that will be curious to watch play out.)

Re: Apple Vision

#477

Post by shen »

lolinder wrote: post #463
jedberg wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The power in the headset makes it sound like it replaces your laptop. So for $3,500 I get a new laptop plus a 100 inch screen. To buy those separately would be far more than $3,500. In my case I plan to buy it on day one because I want it for working. I'm tired of having to choose enjoying the nice weather outside while using a tiny 15 inch laptop screen or being inside at my desk with my 3 32" screens. With Apple Vi…

Does it replace the laptop, or supplement it? From what I've seen it can project one monitor from your existing MacBook into the space. Which means you'll also have to lug your MacBook around in order to use it on the go, and you won't be able to have your 3 monitors, just the one.

It has the M2. Apple says it works with select iPad apps in addition to its own App Store down the line. Apple just recently made FCP & Logic available on the iPad. I think the direction is clear.

Re: Apple Vision

#478

Post by joshstrange »

masklinn wrote: post #386
Auracle wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Quest 2 does it even worse. That said it seemed to be a major upgrade point on the announced Quest 3, so we’ll see how it compares.

Does the quest 2 do it at all? I was under the impression that it only has low-ish resolution IR (or possibly monochrome) cameras, I don't think it ever pretended to be an AR/MR device. The cameras were for controller detection, and passthrough mode was only added because it could be (and that was better than nothing).

It's monochrome and grainy. Passthrough half-works. It's great to have /something/ but it falls far short of really usable. You can drink from your water bottle or look around to find where the dog is but that's about it. God forbid you walk more than a few feet outside your guardian (boundary you draw) or for more than a minute, if you do it can disconnect you from your game, kill the running app, and/or lose your guardian boundaries even once you walk back.

If I'm playing VR with friends it really sucks if you need to get/refill your drink, go to the bathroom, or take the dog out. I wouldn't try taking the dog out with the headset on but the other two I would (because taking off the headset almost guarantees you will be disconnected and Meta's party-type/game-joining features are absolute shit), it's hit or miss.

Re: Apple Vision

#479

Post by joshstrange »

jmbwell wrote: post #430
samwillis wrote: post #51

It's interesting that Magic Leap took $3.5 billion in investment, and had a very similar vision and almost identical demos. But they failed to deliver. I wander what the R and D cost for the Vision Pro is, 10x Magic Leaps investment, $35 billion over last 5 years? Seems plausible... Their total R&D expense is about €100B in same time period.

Could be hard to break it down. It’s clear that much of what we have already — Sidecar, Continuity, all the ML subject recognition, spatial audio, image processing… is likely spun out of the development of this thing, or at least co-developed. This is the space program that brought us Tang, so to speak. Even if this thing flops magnificently, the whole Apple ecosystem will have been enriched by its development. From…

> Sidecar, Continuity, all the ML subject recognition, spatial audio, image processing

I also wonder if the real time OS stuff is a byproduct of the Apple Car project. As soon as they mentioned the R2 chip I immediately was asking myself "Did this come from the car project or will this make its way to the car project". Even if they never ship a car the tech they have to build/discover/etc in the process can help other product lines. Just like throwing Lidar into the phones/iPad Pro or all the ML/AR stuff helped this headset.

Re: Apple Vision

#480

Post by WorldMaker »

elcomet wrote: post #241
seydor wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it doesnt exactly work as a screen replacement because it is stricly personal. Good for using in airplanes and maybe when alone but like other VR glasses, it doesnt fit well in other circumstances

You'll certainly be able to share screen with others later.

Not even necessarily "later". They showed that the visionOS already supports existing Continuity and SharePlay functionality in iOS/iPadOS applications, which are features already built for sharing views of the same apps across devices and/or between people. It's somewhat limited which applications support those APIs today, but it is still an interesting amount more than "nothing".

(ETA: That seemed a subtle theme across the WWDC keynote to me, as increased SharePlay support in first-party apps and select third-party partners was many of the things they demoed across the iOS, iPadOS, Car Play, and macOS updates.)

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