First impressions: Yes, Apple Vision Pro works and yes, it’s good • Hacker News Board

Re: First impressions: Yes, Apple Vision Pro works and yes, it’s good

#471

Post by 411111111111111 » Tue, Jun 06, 2023, 5:02 PM UTC

ENGNR wrote: post #239

411111111111111 wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's 4k per eye. That's great compared to current headsets, but please remember that the screen of your normal screen likely already has 4k, and that's just a rectangle a few cm of everything you see. The 4k per eye means that it's likely going to be It could be great, but productivity will likely need over 4k per eye to be anything beyond a novelty. Depending on how the hardware develops, it could become something g…

Personally I'd make the monitors the same size as real monitors. So... yeah maybe they'd be HD if they took up 2/3rds of peripheral vision, which would match my current monitors. But you could also have more of them, and handwave them away when you want the table back And when on the move would be better than... nothing, which is what it's competing against. Look at phones, they're absolutely abysmal for both input a…

To be clear, it'd be below 720p if you're making them at the same size as an 27" display at the regular distance.

I do completely agree that the promise is there, I've been saying for years that VR/AR is completely pointless as a gaming medium and it's only future is in exactly what Apple is aiming for, here. 4k per eye is just not going to be enough realistically

Re: First impressions: Yes, Apple Vision Pro works and yes, it’s good

#472

Post by mmlkrx » Tue, Jun 06, 2023, 5:02 PM UTC

>I was HIGHLY doubtful that Apple could pull off a workable digital avatar based off of just a scan of your face using the Vision Pro headset itself. Doubt crushed [...] It’s not totally perfect, but they got skin tension and muscle work right,[...] and the brief interactions I had with a live person on a call [...] did not feel creepy or odd. It worked.

One of the things that shocked me most from the keynote, was the Persona avatar demo. Meta has demoed what they call codec avatars[1] which are super impressive, but still very much in development and not anywhere on the horizon yet.

To see Apple demonstrate realistic avatars was honestly super impressive and will be imo one of the features that you just need experience to truly realize the world of a difference it makes to talk to someone on a flat video screen or feel like you're in the same space together thanks to these avatars and spatial audio.

Immersion is so powerful in VR, I can't wait to hang out with friends and family abroad, play tabletop games, watch a show together, or just shoot the sht.

[1]: https://yewtu.be/watch?v=SDxMZ9zjqMs

Re: First impressions: Yes, Apple Vision Pro works and yes, it’s good

#473

Post by mrguyorama » Tue, Jun 06, 2023, 5:03 PM UTC

King-Aaron wrote: post #168

PostOnce wrote: post #72

I don't understand why there is no AR or VR killer app for this thing. Their sales pitch was "it makes it amazing to read articles in safari"? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYkq9Rgoj8E&t=5410s $3500 to... look at a floating web browser? Surely they can come up with something. Give me UV/IR vision, let me see the pipes under the ground, show me how to assemble the furniture I'm looking at, give me a template to pain…

What killer app did laptops have that made them the success they are today? Does new technology necessarily need a killer app if the ergonomics end up being more desirable to a broad range of users? I don't necessarily know the answer here, but my gut feeling is that defining this device based on a "killer app" is like trying to define the original iPhone as needing a "killer app". It didn't necessarily have such a t…

The killer app of laptops is portability. That killer app was so damn powerful it worked even when laptops were called "luggables" because they were fifty pounds and you couldn't use them without a power outlet.

The original iPhone's killer app was an affordable data plan. At the time, data was stupid expense, priced almost as a velben good. But by 2007, AT&T launched a $60 unlimited data plan for their iPhones. Feature phones have been using the web since the turn of the millennium, but nobody could afford it. Nobody bought the smart phones that existed because nobody could afford it. The Motorola Sidekiq was an unattainable toy for most families, but that unlimited data plan suddenly made smart phones viable to most of the population.

For reference, that plan with unlimited data still had a limited number of calling minutes and texts per month!

Re: First impressions: Yes, Apple Vision Pro works and yes, it’s good

#474

Post by mrguyorama » Tue, Jun 06, 2023, 5:08 PM UTC

JohnAaronNelson wrote: post #282

PostOnce wrote: post #72

I don't understand why there is no AR or VR killer app for this thing. Their sales pitch was "it makes it amazing to read articles in safari"? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYkq9Rgoj8E&t=5410s $3500 to... look at a floating web browser? Surely they can come up with something. Give me UV/IR vision, let me see the pipes under the ground, show me how to assemble the furniture I'm looking at, give me a template to pain…

The killer app will be porn and/or virtually undressing the people around you.

You should try VR porn. Like actually try it. I have heard it loses it's gimmick really fast. It's extremely limited because the camera rig required for video content is restrictive, and the only ones who can afford it are really boring studios, and it's not actually "VR", but merely "3D with a large field of view", which turns out to not be that great, and the "games" that let you interact are often cash grabs, and plenty more often just store bought 3D assets with extremely mediocre animation.

Go look at the VR porn subreddit. It's really not impressive. Also the story that VHS won because of porn is a lie. Porn doesn't drive innovation like most people claim.

Re: First impressions: Yes, Apple Vision Pro works and yes, it’s good

#475

Post by mrguyorama » Tue, Jun 06, 2023, 5:10 PM UTC

johlits wrote: post #174

PostOnce wrote: post #72

I don't understand why there is no AR or VR killer app for this thing. Their sales pitch was "it makes it amazing to read articles in safari"? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYkq9Rgoj8E&t=5410s $3500 to... look at a floating web browser? Surely they can come up with something. Give me UV/IR vision, let me see the pipes under the ground, show me how to assemble the furniture I'm looking at, give me a template to pain…

Just give me lightsaber battles and I'm sold.

It doesn't work, because you can't constrain the user's hand to match what's happening in the game, meaning it completely removes any immersion benefit you get from VR in the first place.

Melee in VR feels awful. It feels like swatting flies.

Shooting in VR is amazing. There are multiple games that let you play Star Wars battlefront knockoffs so you can cosplay the droid army.

Re: First impressions: Yes, Apple Vision Pro works and yes, it’s good

#476

Post by akmarinov » Tue, Jun 06, 2023, 5:12 PM UTC

dandellion wrote: post #338

akmarinov wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You say you don’t expect anything groundbreaking and then compare it with arguably the most groundbreaking product ever

If you make a list of groundbreaking products that would include the light bulb, the bicycle, the refrigerator, the radio, the car, printed books, the newspaper, the TV, personal computers, mobile phones... The iPhone is great, but I doubt it could even make it to the top ten.

The things you list aren't products, they're the inventions.

The car is the invention, a car product is a Tesla. The TV is the invention, a TV product is the LG OLED CX.

I'm not saying the iPhone is the greatest invention ever (though the telephone might be).

I'm saying that it's one of the most groundbreaking and transformative products ever.

Hope that clears it up.

Re: First impressions: Yes, Apple Vision Pro works and yes, it’s good

#477

Post by mrguyorama » Tue, Jun 06, 2023, 5:14 PM UTC

AndyMcConachie wrote: post #373

PostOnce wrote: post #72

I don't understand why there is no AR or VR killer app for this thing. Their sales pitch was "it makes it amazing to read articles in safari"? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYkq9Rgoj8E&t=5410s $3500 to... look at a floating web browser? Surely they can come up with something. Give me UV/IR vision, let me see the pipes under the ground, show me how to assemble the furniture I'm looking at, give me a template to pain…

Shopping. Walk into a physical store and stand in an aisle. How many products can you see in a 360 field of vision? Visit any webstore. How many products can you see on your screen at once? To me this is the completely obvious application for VR. But in order for it to be actually useful you would need an online shopping experience that worked with it. At the very least you would have to 3D model every product.

This is laughable. Walmart literally has a demo of an "AR experience" shopping experience and it is absurdism, on the same level as that pepsi logo design document.

Nobody wants that. People shop online to avoid the annoyance of a physical location. I can shop for things while I squeeze out turds, why would I ever exchange that for strapping an overpriced screen to my face? The average person favors convenience and cheapness above all else, to a huge extent.

Re: First impressions: Yes, Apple Vision Pro works and yes, it’s good

#478

Post by akmarinov » Tue, Jun 06, 2023, 5:14 PM UTC

makomk wrote: post #238

akmarinov wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For comparison the top of the line PSVR2 does 2K per eye, hooked up to basically a PC made for gaming

Different market, I think. The PSVR2 is aimed at gaming where resolution matters less but the demands on graphics hardware to push that resolution are much higher because they're rendering complex scenes with fancy visual effects and fast motion, all on a console that's limited in graphics power compared to higher-end gaming PCs. Projecting mostly flat windows with little overdraw is much less graphically demanding;…

I feel like they have their "game porting tool" out now, because they want to drum up games for visionOS, so it's likely that they'll also do gaming if they can.

Re: First impressions: Yes, Apple Vision Pro works and yes, it’s good

#479

Post by LadyCailin » Tue, Jun 06, 2023, 5:16 PM UTC

philistine wrote: post #325

mcphage wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And Visual Voice Mail—that was a huge step forward.

Believe it or not, my carrier finally got visual voicemail in 2022.

Just in time for regular phone calls to be on their way out.

Re: First impressions: Yes, Apple Vision Pro works and yes, it’s good

#480

Post by mrguyorama » Tue, Jun 06, 2023, 5:19 PM UTC

DonHopkins wrote: post #186

PostOnce wrote: post #72

I don't understand why there is no AR or VR killer app for this thing. Their sales pitch was "it makes it amazing to read articles in safari"? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYkq9Rgoj8E&t=5410s $3500 to... look at a floating web browser? Surely they can come up with something. Give me UV/IR vision, let me see the pipes under the ground, show me how to assemble the furniture I'm looking at, give me a template to pain…

You can't see the killer app for the nurturing ecosystem.

What nurturing ecosystem? We've had ten years or so to find an actual use case that every average person is willing to spend hundreds of dollars on, and we have come up empty handed. There's nothing magical or so new in this headset. The people who have an actual use for VR, simulation game turbo nerds, have been mostly satisfied, nobody else cares about VR. Most people who try the "floating web browser and custom theater and infinite monitors" experience quickly realize how unergonomic it is. VR is still an experience that one in ten cannot adjust to.

This is the same problem we saw with the metaverse. It's all hype and no substance. Their best ideas to put into the presentation were looking at web sites.

Why would web sites be better to look at in VR?