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When you lose the ability to write, you also lose some of your ability to think

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Re: When you lose the ability to write, you also lose some of your ability to think

#471

Post by loup-vaillant »

liber8 wrote: post #444
loup-vaillant wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They are able to entertain millions of people around the globe while doing it and some build incredible wealth at the same time. I think you meant hoard incredible wealth? There's a limit to how much wealth you can actually create with immaterial entertainment alone. Even a best seller book: it takes time to read, so while it provides value to millions of readers, it also removes value in the form of opportunity co…

If people do not "make" money (i.e. create value), how do you explain the increase in the standard of living over the last 100 years?

> "make" money (i.e. create value)

See, the harmful confusion right there.

Making money and creating value are two separate things. There are people who create value without receiving any money in return. And there are people who receive an obscene amount of money while creating very little value — and sometimes destroying more value than they create.

Understanding that the two are separate is the only way you can question the legitimacy of our richest people. I’ll give you a hint: the most impressive CEOs journals routinely praise as geniuses, are very, very unlikely to produce as much value as the money they actually receive.

If you want to even stand a chance at critically looking at our current economic system, you absolutely need to properly separate the notions of "making money" and "creating value".

Re: When you lose the ability to write, you also lose some of your ability to think

#472

Post by programmarchy »

shadowtree wrote: post #443

Just for one persona. Good old Peter Drucker formalized the personas in his advice to new employees to figure out how their bosses consumed information: 1 - The lawyer. Needs walls of text. 2 - The architect. Needs diagrams, visuals. 3 - The accountant. Needs numbers, spreadsheets. 4 - The actor. Needs a conversation, verbal. It's a generalization, of course, but I have applied this pattern successfully. The core bit…

Which persona is Bezos? Accountant?

Re: When you lose the ability to write, you also lose some of your ability to think

#473

Post by chasing »

oh_sigh wrote: post #442
chasing wrote: post #407

Writing is thinking. You do it as much for yourself as you do your readers and having to put effort into it is how you realize gains. Like strength training. Use tools, of course, but don't let them do the hard part for you. It'd be like buying a robot to go to the gym and move weights up and down — sorta misses the point. (Before I get the usual sorts of replies: I'm not talking about writing boilerplate or marketin…

But what if AI will write a more compelling paragraph than you ever could, even if you devoted your life to writing? So it might only be people who use AI who get their personal thoughts and ideas out into the world.

I wrote:

"Use tools, of course, but don't let them do the hard part for you."

I didn't say I was opposed to using the AI tools. I'm opposed to using them to think for you — to do the "hard part." If they help with a turn-of-phrase or vocabulary or structure or whatever then they're just a more advanced version of tools people already use for those things.

Re: When you lose the ability to write, you also lose some of your ability to think

#474

Post by anonuser123456 »

Alternate model:

Iterative refinement with an AI will make you think better by shortening the feedback loop.

The AI will force you to clarify your points because, if not, you will see it has meandered into the weeds when writing based on your prompt.

And since you have not authored the prompt directly, you will have to critically read it to validate fidelity to your view point.

This will help you build the skill of critical assessment as well as how to concisely specify your ideas.

Re: When you lose the ability to write, you also lose some of your ability to think

#475

Post by chasing »

wwweston wrote: post #466
chasing wrote: post #407

Writing is thinking. You do it as much for yourself as you do your readers and having to put effort into it is how you realize gains. Like strength training. Use tools, of course, but don't let them do the hard part for you. It'd be like buying a robot to go to the gym and move weights up and down — sorta misses the point. (Before I get the usual sorts of replies: I'm not talking about writing boilerplate or marketin…

> Use tools, of course "Tools are the subtlest of traps. We become reliant upon them and in their absence we are vulnerable, weak, defenseless..."

Eh, or they just save time and headache.

I'd much rather type on a computer than write longhand in notebooks.

Re: When you lose the ability to write, you also lose some of your ability to think

#476

Post by DiffEq »

loup-vaillant wrote: post #316
donkeyd wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure. With every generation some tech pops up that'll make every next generation worse off and in the end there's just something else people spend time on. My generation built their own PC's, struggled to install Windows by popping tons of floppies in a drive and hoping none of the steps failed, our internet connection made sounds and we learned DHCP the hard way. The generation after me is hardly able to res…

> They are able to entertain millions of people around the globe while doing it and some build incredible wealth at the same time. I think you meant hoard incredible wealth? There's a limit to how much wealth you can actually create with immaterial entertainment alone. Even a best seller book: it takes time to read, so while it provides value to millions of readers, it also removes value in the form of opportunity co…

I think your viewpoint stems in a belief that there is only so much money to go around. Your view about a landlord taking money is kind of a micro view. I am a landlord…the house I rent I actually built. It is an asset that people are willing to give me money to use for a while…they get a place to live…IF I could not have ever rented it out I would have never built it…it would be a worthless piece of ground that nobody would want to live on…this is how the world works…when I die, I will give it to my son…he will rent it out. Are you saying that he also would be “taking” money from people?

Re: When you lose the ability to write, you also lose some of your ability to think

#477

Post by svnt »

programmarchy wrote: post #472
shadowtree wrote: post #443

Just for one persona. Good old Peter Drucker formalized the personas in his advice to new employees to figure out how their bosses consumed information: 1 - The lawyer. Needs walls of text. 2 - The architect. Needs diagrams, visuals. 3 - The accountant. Needs numbers, spreadsheets. 4 - The actor. Needs a conversation, verbal. It's a generalization, of course, but I have applied this pattern successfully. The core bit…

Which persona is Bezos? Accountant?

Probably the lawyer. At Amazon they’re somewhat known for the their six-page essay.

Re: When you lose the ability to write, you also lose some of your ability to think

#478

Post by alttab »

programmarchy wrote: post #472
shadowtree wrote: post #443

Just for one persona. Good old Peter Drucker formalized the personas in his advice to new employees to figure out how their bosses consumed information: 1 - The lawyer. Needs walls of text. 2 - The architect. Needs diagrams, visuals. 3 - The accountant. Needs numbers, spreadsheets. 4 - The actor. Needs a conversation, verbal. It's a generalization, of course, but I have applied this pattern successfully. The core bit…

Which persona is Bezos? Accountant?

Definitely lawyer and accountant.

PRFAQs, COEs, and WBRs.

Re: When you lose the ability to write, you also lose some of your ability to think

#479

Post by [deleted] »

programmarchy wrote: post #472
shadowtree wrote: post #443

Just for one persona. Good old Peter Drucker formalized the personas in his advice to new employees to figure out how their bosses consumed information: 1 - The lawyer. Needs walls of text. 2 - The architect. Needs diagrams, visuals. 3 - The accountant. Needs numbers, spreadsheets. 4 - The actor. Needs a conversation, verbal. It's a generalization, of course, but I have applied this pattern successfully. The core bit…

Which persona is Bezos? Accountant?

[deleted]

Re: When you lose the ability to write, you also lose some of your ability to think

#480

Post by chasing »

sva_ wrote: post #446
chasing wrote: post #407

Writing is thinking. You do it as much for yourself as you do your readers and having to put effort into it is how you realize gains. Like strength training. Use tools, of course, but don't let them do the hard part for you. It'd be like buying a robot to go to the gym and move weights up and down — sorta misses the point. (Before I get the usual sorts of replies: I'm not talking about writing boilerplate or marketin…

In contrast, > If men learn this, it will implant forgetfulness in their souls; they will cease to exercise memory because they rely on that which is written, calling things to remembrance no longer from within themselves, but by means of external marks. What you have discovered is a recipe not for memory, but for reminder. And it is no true wisdom that you offer your disciples, but only its semblance, for by telling…

I guess I disagree with Plato, unless he's talking about how I no longer know anyone's phone numbers off the top of my head.

I think it's fairly well established that when you think about a topic well enough to generate ideas and put them on the page that you also cement those ideas in your mind. If you want to remember something you read (or see or do), write about it. In your own words.

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