Grand jury votes to indict Donald Trump • Hacker News Board

Re: Grand jury votes to indict Donald Trump

#471

Post by guelo » Fri, Mar 31, 2023, 5:24 AM UTC

xwdv wrote: post #384

mbgerring wrote: post #55

Nearly the entire point of the United States at its founding was that the law should apply to political leaders. We are overdue for setting the precedent of a former President being charged with a crime, and we ought to go back and charge a few other former Presidents with crimes while we’re at it.

Yes. I’m pretty sure Obama should have to answer for the drone executions he ordered (some which were even American citizens, which seems very illegal).

I'm down with it. Though the executive exercising war powers seems as far as possible from a non-president commiting state-level fraud.

Re: Grand jury votes to indict Donald Trump

#472

Post by jshen » Fri, Mar 31, 2023, 5:25 AM UTC

leereeves wrote: post #319

adrr wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We’ve prosecuted a vice president candidate for similar crimes. https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/former-senator-and-presidenti...

That VP was not convicted, however. And more importantly, that's not what Trump was indicted for. Indicting him for misusing campaign funds would be straight-forward, if they could prove it. So the fact that they indicted him for something else seems to show that they couldn't prove he misused campaign funds. They actually indicted him for recording a payment to his lawyer as "legal expenses", because it was allegedl…

We don’t know yet what he was indicted for exactly.

Re: Grand jury votes to indict Donald Trump

#473

Post by mariojv » Fri, Mar 31, 2023, 5:25 AM UTC

pessimizer wrote: post #324

MuffinFlavored wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's kind of interesting because, according to a lot of other people (whether they are speaking factually or in an opinionated fashion), Trump has managed to avoid a lot of laws (inciting an insurrection, etc.). Why is this hush money thing the biggest law a Grand jury is able to stick on him? If he's supposedly guilty for so many other things, why is this all he's been indicted on the past few years? Genuinely askin…

I get the impression that there's no explanation required for how all the forces of the most powerful government in the world and its intelligence agencies, which are the largest, best financed, and since 9/11 least restrained in the world can't prove the liberal claims of a vast array of crimes that a slightly stupid wrestling valet game show host who largely lived off branding agreements with real estate developers…

I don't think the Manhattan DA has direct access to the full capacity of US intelligence agencies to use against citizens or former presidents.

Re: Grand jury votes to indict Donald Trump

#474

Post by cocacola1 » Fri, Mar 31, 2023, 5:26 AM UTC

stuckinhell wrote: post #348

nemo44x wrote: post #134

[flagged]

100%. It's would have far better to just defeat Trump in 2024, and let him go slink into the shadows. Now a red line has been crossed, the GOP is seems to be gearing up for civil war. They keep talking about the 6 Christians martyred and how no corporation or the "Biden Regime" has acknowledged them. Desantis has come out on Trump's side, even though days ago he said he wouldn't. Escalation is occurring, and it's she…

Metaphorical civil war or literal civil war?

Re: Grand jury votes to indict Donald Trump

#475

Post by yafbum » Fri, Mar 31, 2023, 5:27 AM UTC

MuffinFlavored wrote: post #212

mbgerring wrote: post #55

Nearly the entire point of the United States at its founding was that the law should apply to political leaders. We are overdue for setting the precedent of a former President being charged with a crime, and we ought to go back and charge a few other former Presidents with crimes while we’re at it.

It's kind of interesting because, according to a lot of other people (whether they are speaking factually or in an opinionated fashion), Trump has managed to avoid a lot of laws (inciting an insurrection, etc.). Why is this hush money thing the biggest law a Grand jury is able to stick on him? If he's supposedly guilty for so many other things, why is this all he's been indicted on the past few years? Genuinely askin…

Time, juridiction, and witness cooperation lined up for this one.

The alleged crime happened 8 years ago by now. Some more recent misdeeds might still yield more indictments.

The jurisdiction is New York state, where Trump's status as former president is irrelevant (unlike insurrection related issues, which I guess are federal, and therefore for which his status as sitting president would've made impeachment the remedy rather than criminal prosecution).

There is a cooperating witness spilling the beans on this one. On his mini coup attempt, maybe they were a bit better at containing associates.

Re: Grand jury votes to indict Donald Trump

#476

Post by skellington » Fri, Mar 31, 2023, 5:28 AM UTC

AustinDev wrote: post #421

sanderjd wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The theory as I understand it is that the payment was a large unreported contribution to his presidential campaign. It's not legal to do that, and the prosecutors believe they can demonstrate that's what happened.

Campaign finance violates are a dime a dozen. I don't think any serious candidate didn't have values similar or greater than what's discussed in this case. None of them got indicted criminally they all just paid fines. `The commission documents said Perkins Coie — where a partner at the time, Marc Elias, was representing the Clinton campaign — paid Fusion GPS slightly more than $1 million in 2016, and the law firm wa…

Yeah but they weren't being persecuted for obviously political reasons. Usually the ruling class avoids eating their own because they know then that the guillotine can come for them. But in this case, Trump is too much of a danger to the war-machine establishment.

Hillary paid for the Steele Dossier and improperly reported it and was fined for it. They didn't try to press criminal charges against her for that or for mishandling classified emails (also a crime technically).

Did you notice how talk of Trump's crimes related to classified documents disappeared completely after Biden was found with improperly handled classified documents?

It's all theater.

Re: Grand jury votes to indict Donald Trump

#477

Post by jshen » Fri, Mar 31, 2023, 5:30 AM UTC

sashank_1509 wrote: post #450

graeme wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Quick question, who is the most criminal president in US history? Your post is a lot of meta talk and very short on actual....crimes. The idea behind this indictment is that Trump broke the law as a citizen. Not that he did stuff in office that people dislike. Which law did Obama break which you think he evaded prosecution for on account of being president. Please be specific.

[flagged]

John Yoo argued that the President (Bush) could detain American citizens without charges indefinitely. What were you saying about liberty again?

Re: Grand jury votes to indict Donald Trump

#478

Post by uptownfunk » Fri, Mar 31, 2023, 5:30 AM UTC

laidoffamazon wrote: post #454

uptownfunk wrote: post #380

Banks collapse. Weakening of the dollar. Former American president indicted. Plots to pause and inhibit AI technologies development through petition. Never ending rain and gloom on the west coast. School shootings. I am not one for conspiracy but it really does not seem like the tides are moving in the United States favor right now. Why does every day feel like we are getting closer to some kind of tipping point? Int…

It’s because you’re ignorant of history. If anything we are closer to morning in America than anytime since 2000. No new wars, massive advancements in hard tech and AI, and the lowest unemployment rate in 50 years. The new American century is being built as we speak by the most brilliant and hardworking humans on the planet, I suggest you not overlook it.

I guess my glass is just half empty

Re: Grand jury votes to indict Donald Trump

#479

Post by cocacola1 » Fri, Mar 31, 2023, 5:31 AM UTC

infamouscow wrote: post #70

flangola7 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean? I want this, why would history be unkind to me?

There's all kinds of unprecedented legal and political ramifications nobody can predict from this. Don't get me wrong, I think every POTUS in recent memory should be locked up for war crimes, but going after living presidents for petty nonsense isn't worth what falls out of it. This is complicated by the fact Trump is going to run again in 2024, putting this further into uncharted territory.

Not particularly uncharted. Eugene Debs literally ran from prison.

Re: Grand jury votes to indict Donald Trump

#480

Post by dboreham » Fri, Mar 31, 2023, 5:31 AM UTC

pessimizer wrote: post #324

MuffinFlavored wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's kind of interesting because, according to a lot of other people (whether they are speaking factually or in an opinionated fashion), Trump has managed to avoid a lot of laws (inciting an insurrection, etc.). Why is this hush money thing the biggest law a Grand jury is able to stick on him? If he's supposedly guilty for so many other things, why is this all he's been indicted on the past few years? Genuinely askin…

I get the impression that there's no explanation required for how all the forces of the most powerful government in the world and its intelligence agencies, which are the largest, best financed, and since 9/11 least restrained in the world can't prove the liberal claims of a vast array of crimes that a slightly stupid wrestling valet game show host who largely lived off branding agreements with real estate developers…

Gold.