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IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

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Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#471

Post by sebzim4500 »

palata wrote: post #436
edgyquant wrote: post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No he’s right and this is brought up here all the time. There are large swathes of America where people don’t have neighbors for miles (sometimes tens of miles) while there are comparatively few places in Europe that meet this definition.

I can't believe that Starlink is counting on those relatively few people to make money. There must be some other stream of revenue, right?

Presumably ships/airlines/us military are all a signicant potential revenue source. Only once they get the laser links working though.

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#472

Post by palata »

sebzim4500 wrote: post #471
palata wrote: post #436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't believe that Starlink is counting on those relatively few people to make money. There must be some other stream of revenue, right?

Presumably ships/airlines/us military are all a signicant potential revenue source. Only once they get the laser links working though.

Right. So it's not exactly about connecting those who are remote and need it... unless we consider that having access to TikTok on a ship is a fundamental need.

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#473

Post by ClumsyPilot »

concordDance wrote: post #457
palata wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. I guess just like Musk got blamed personally for his screw up with Twitter employees all over the world? He did a whole bunch of illegal stuff there, I'm still waiting to see consequences.

If they were actually illegal then we should see some settlements or court cases resolved over the next year or three. The justice system moves slowly.

Illegal or not, he faced no consequences for the screw up

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#474

Post by palata »

concordDance wrote: post #457
palata wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. I guess just like Musk got blamed personally for his screw up with Twitter employees all over the world? He did a whole bunch of illegal stuff there, I'm still waiting to see consequences.

If they were actually illegal then we should see some settlements or court cases resolved over the next year or three. The justice system moves slowly.

He'll get fines ("settlements", I guess), and that will still have been cheaper than going the legal way. In the meantime many people lost their job in an irregular way (w.r.t. their country), and maybe they can't afford it.

That's how much responsibilities too rich people have: it's cheaper for them to go the illegal way and screw those who worked for them.

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#475

Post by sneak »

seper8 wrote: post #450
inglor_cz wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are entire palettes of fantastically sounding plans to be found in Brussels. Don't get your hopes up.

A planned economy will always do worse than a free one. God bless the invisible hand

How did the invisible hand cause Elon Musk to exist?

I'm not saying we wouldn't have had reusable rockets and ubiquitous internet access without him; just that it probably would not have happened in my lifetime.

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#476

Post by t43562 »

sebzim4500 wrote: post #469
t43562 wrote: post #451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a spin which leaves out the moralising I think. This is a newspaper quote: "A senior Ukrainian presidential aide has reacted with anger after Elon Musk’s SpaceX said it had taken steps to prevent its Starlink satellite communications service from controlling drones, which are critical to Kyiv’s forces in fighting off the Russian invasion." 'Gwynne Shotwell, SpaceX’s chief operating officer, said at a conferen…

>Why would anyone build any reliance on a system which is controlled from afar and suddenly becomes unreliable when it's needed the most? This would make sense if it was China or Russia proposing this, but for NATO countries I don't see the risk. The US would presumably be fine with Starlink being used to guide NATO weapons.

Possibly but maybe only if the conflicts were ones in which NATO was involved. Some French involvement in Mali or whatever might not count and might even conflict with the national interests of other Nato members.

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#477

Post by briantakita »

skinnymuch wrote: post #464
briantakita wrote: post #448

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting that my anti-war reply gets flagged over here. Can't have anyone critical of wars allowed to speak out. Nor can certain extremist ideological movements with a history of mass destruction, whose current activities are well documented, be acknowledged. I believe that answers your question...

Are you advocating for some right wing libertarian stuff?

Sure...We should not support wars where many people die & we should choose diplomacy instead. We should not funnel arms to violent ideological extremists as well. One of these extremist groups calls themself "The Right Sector". Many members of "The Right Sector" have tattoos that are Nazi symbols, hold large tiki torch marches, & have publicly proclaimed Nazi ideology. Do I dare mention the over 16000 civilians killed (many of which are children) in the Donbas after the 2014 coup in Kiev?

My opinion is, you know, "right wing libertarian stuff". I must be off my rocker...So must Vice & the various other media outlets that extensively reported on this over the past decade.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xC1oCpnDURc&ab_channel=VICE

https://www.vice.com/en/article/y3m3eg/neo-nazi-terror-group...

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/ukraine-has-nazi-probl...

https://thehill.com/opinion/international/359609-the-reality...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fy910FG46C4&ab_channel=TIME

https://youtu.be/pKcmNGvaDUs

``` Brenton Tarrant, who massacred 51 worshipers at a mosque in Christchurch in New Zealand in 2019, and several members of the U.S. “Rise Above Movement” who were prosecuted for attacking counter-protesters at the “Unite the Right” rally in Charlottesville in August 2017, have been trained by the Azov Battalion. ```

https://www.peoplesworld.org/article/ignoring-the-influence-...

Pax Americana & the EU is sending weapons to the Azov Battalion in this war. Here is more on the "Rise Above Movement", which Wikipedia describes as ```a loose collective of violent neo-Nazis and fascists", white nationalist, white supremacist, and far-right``` and ```Social media accounts used by the group shared photographed of members meeting with far-right and neo-Nazi groups in Eastern Europe, such as the Ukrainian political party National Corps and the Azov Battalion```

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rise_Above_Movement

I also don't support Pax Americana destroying the Nordstream Pipeline, where the German people bear the brunt of this act of violence. I lived in Panama City, FL, where the divers who destroyed the Nordstream Pipe live, as reported by Pulitzer Prize journalist Seymour Hersch.

https://seymourhersh.substack.com/p/how-america-took-out-the...

Here is "right wing libertarian stuff" news outlet Democracy Now interviewing Seymour Hersch...

https://youtu.be/d4BuMaGlKp0

Sounds like I failed some sort of purity test here. It's a chilling time we live in; that simply saying we should not eagerly enter into wars & arm violent extremists is so controversial. Reminds me of the 1930s Germany, where so-called pacifists (imo people with common sense) were so wholeheartedly denounced when they did not support the tenants of the same extremist ideology that created WW2...whose modern direct adherents we are sending $billions of weapons to.

But shhhh, we can't talk about this. It's the dirty secret that shall not be mentioned. Who in their proper mind would support this? Consolidated power inevitably gets corrupted & turns into a bully because it attracts psychopaths, sociopaths, & sycophants into positions of leadership.

So please, denounce me & downvote me. Flag this post. Silence this thread. Many people critical of wars & arming extremist groups have been denounced & silence in the past and continue to be denounced & silenced. Show us all who you really are...Are the dead Ukrainians, dead Russians, & rise of Nazi ideological extremists worth it?

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#478

Post by troad »

t43562 wrote: post #309
troad wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are right, though I’d add that the EU correctly reflects Europeans’ policy preferences here. European voters, more often than not, seem to believe they can have their cake and eat it too: free public services that remain competitive and cutting edge, somehow efficiently run by the government and delivered on time and on budget. Ask those same people about how is run, and they’ll have a litany of complaints.

The flip side of it is exploitative large commercial almost-monopolies which do their best to make you spend money you shouldn't on things you don't need. Markets full of almost exactly the same deal dressed up so many different ways that you don't realise you're going to be stiffed any way you go. Cheap initial prices hide very expensive prices later on etc etc. The amount of effort to evaluate everything and work o…

> The flip side of it is exploitative large commercial almost-monopolies which do their best to make you spend money you shouldn't on things you don't need. Markets full of almost exactly the same deal dressed up so many different ways that you don't realise you're going to be stiffed any way you go. Cheap initial prices hide very expensive prices later on etc etc.

Yes, Europeans are fond of telling scary tall tales about these kinds of strawmen. "Our economic growth may be sclerotic, our regulatory environment may be completely uncompetitive, and every third company may be relocating operations elsewhere, but the real win is that we don't have too many kinds of products to be confused choosing between!"

It's a coping mechanism for decline.

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#479

Post by skinnymuch »

briantakita wrote: post #477
skinnymuch wrote: post #464

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you advocating for some right wing libertarian stuff?

Sure...We should not support wars where many people die & we should choose diplomacy instead. We should not funnel arms to violent ideological extremists as well. One of these extremist groups calls themself "The Right Sector". Many members of "The Right Sector" have tattoos that are Nazi symbols, hold large tiki torch marches, & have publicly proclaimed Nazi ideology. Do I dare mention the over 16000 civilians kille…

I wasn’t sure what you meant. It’s hard to tell what someone is indicating in online comments. I don’t think the world should stay out of Ukraine but I agree America doesn’t have to be in the war the way it is. Europe is powerful.

I keep thinking Russia is a joke now. Whatever they get of Ukraine, isn’t the country a mess now? Would they be able to invade Georgia in 5 years? Other regional power like Indonesia, Iran, Saudi Arabia are much more successful at their imperialism. Israel is the most successful of regional powers. Israel is unique in that it is plenty more powerful than any neighboring country while having fewer people. Not to mention engaging in ethnic cleansing and an open air gulag/internment camp in the Gaza Strip.

I guess my thinking is who cares? Relatively speaking. We were still bombing Yemen with Saudis pretty recently. Israel kills so many Palestinians. America keeps trying to overthrow leftist leaders in Brazil, Cuba, and Venezuela. American intelligence assassinated the leader of my parent’s country a decade ago.

I never quite understood the intense hype of Russia and Ukraine. I’m guessing it’s because they are white and the Global North is white and controls the world, relatively speaking.

I realize my comment borders on whataboutism. I don’t think it is. I’ve condemned Russia’s actions.

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#480

Post by jasmer »

skinnymuch wrote: post #467
jasmer wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked for the EU gov. and I believe that Europeans are more naive about the foundations of EU than Americans are about the US. And far more sensitive about it. All Americans are cynical about their own country and government. The EU is a wierd entity, and few Europeanns have a true understanding of the mechanisms of power, the horrible democracy deficit; a result of a kind of 'blind faith' in institutions, and a n…

Americans aren’t cynical. 95% can’t define an economic system outside capitalism or a stance outside liberalism of conservatism. Americans don’t know anything about America. They love the Founding Fathers and founding of the country. There’s nothing critical to them. Holding the govt or corporations accountable is never done. Americans can’t talk about great govt program because there’s so few of them. Of the Govt pr…

Americans are not cynical people, but they are cynical about their government.

Remeber 'Rambo'? The simple Vietnam Vet who comes home and is harrassed by the Police for no reason?

Or the 'Most American Film Ever' aka the Godfaather, which is criminal family's rise to power - and the Patriarch wanting the son to be 'something legit' aka a 'Senator'? That's JFK.

The American military, DARPA etc. are all amazing things, and frankly so is the Constitution and major institutions aka Congress even as people are cynical they are 'believers' in the end.

Anyhow - 'crude nationalism' isn't that common in intellectual circles where as defensive pro-EU (as an institution) commentary is all over the place and people who don't go for it are 'alt-something' etc. This is unique.

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