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Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

bennettnotes.com

471–480 of 535 posts

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#471

My honest question is: What's the alternative. I'm not an apple fan. Most of my personal devices run Linux, but I feel essentially trapped on an iPhone. It doesn't seem like there's a truly useful open phone out there. I don't like Apple, and I don't trust them or their ostensibly pro-privacy stance much, but I want as little privacy invasion and as little advertising as possible on my phone, and I think as bad as Ap…

My question, building on that one, is: Can there be a true alternative? This is a genuine question, not an attempt to paint Apple as the be-all and end-all or a paragon of perfection (for all that I'm an unapologetic Apple fan, I recognize that they have serious faults). I think there is a strong case to be made that the limitations Apple has placed on the iPhone are instrumental in guaranteeing the privacy and (rela…

From a technical perspective, of course it is possible to give users control of the trust on the devices they ostensibly own, rather than giant megacorps, and I remain extremely unconvinced that this leads to a meaningful loss of security or privacy for those users. From a socioeconomic perspective, it's a much bigger question; the allure for those megacorps is far too strong and the economics of the industry makes it hard for society to wrest power from them, and for some reason people seem mostly okay with this status quo.

It seems to me that it's inevitable that if we let these megacorps control our devices, they will use it against us in one way or another. The only way for us as users to actually have freedom, security, and privacy is if we can control what entities the device trusts ourselves. We must create choice where the corps would rather we have none.

I will also point out that I consider Apple's rent seeking and censorship, that is more or less literally impossible to avoid, to be unethical use of this power they wield over users, and a pretty clear and meaningful way that users are harmed by it. In very concrete ways it can be considered more harmful than malware. But few seem to care enough to ask for control of their devices back, and in many of these threads more seem willing to jump to the defence of these practices than see them as a problem.

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#472
post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Windows 11 comes with ads in the search box. Apple’s apps have ads for third parties (App Store) and to upsell their own services (Music, iCloud). They’re also allegedly working on adding ads to Maps: https://www.macrumors.com/2022/08/15/apple-could-bring-ads-t...

Microsoft does the same thing. Apple hardware is also said to be overpriced compared to comparable Windows hardware. So, how much do these factors play into Apple charging $99/year for XCode, and Windows having a free IDE? Or can we just give up on trying to track a few dollars through a trillion-dollar company already? Sheeesh.

> Microsoft does the same thing.

Yes, I responded to and directly quoted someone making that point.

> Apple charging $99/year for XCode, and Windows having a free IDE?

Apple doesn’t charge for Xcode. It is free and you can get it as a direct download or from the Mac App Store. The $99/year is so you can sign software.

> Or can we just give up on trying to track a few dollars through a trillion-dollar company already?

I don’t understand the point you’re trying to make.

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#473

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> iOS isn't impervious to malware either. fortunately no one made this hyperbolic claim. > Pegasus was deployed effortlessly to tens of thousands of iOS devices, I can't stop a G20 nation or the people they pay from hacking my mum's phone to steal from her bank account, but I can offer to buy her an iPhone and have her be immune to nearly all real world attacks. it's of course fine if you don't care about the securit…

[flagged]

Could you please stop posting unsubstantive comments and flamebait? You've unfortunately been doing it repeatedly. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for.

If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#475

If you're talking about developing a hobby app, I'd recommend using something like react native. The DX on react (not react native necessarily) is unmatched, and easier to pick up than iOS development from the ground up. After that, you can publish the app through Expo, which is an app on the App Store. No $99 fee that way, great DX, deploying is easy and quick, a great middle ground for hobbies. Alternatively, make…

Except for when you want push. Because Apple doesn't allow web notifications.

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is slippery-slope fearmongering. In reality, Apple has gone out of its way to ensure that Apple Silicon Macs can boot other operating systems if the user so desires, and can do so without sacrificing security.

I actually mean all the little Vista-style popups that recent macOS versions introduced, on top of the quarantine and notarization bullshit which gets harder to skip in each release. Just give me a simple checkbox in the system settings that this is a "developer machine and I know what I'm doing" which disables all that stuff and it would be fine.

Well, they can't make it a simple checkbox or everyone would just check it (see how many people already download Developer Betas of the OSes every summer). But if you really do want this, you can have it: disable SIP, done.

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#477
post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even though its now probably 20+ years old, the CodeWarrior experience was vastly superior to XCode. For a company with Apple's budget, XCode is a disgrace.

Oh maaaaaahn, do I remember Metrowerks CodeWarrior[1] fondly! Thank you for bringing it up. I also remember using Lightspeed C, which later became Think C.[2] [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CodeWarrior [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/THINK_C

Still got my Code Warrior tee shirt, showing a chunky dude holding a floppy disc...

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#478
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is not the $99, it's the fact that you can't publish anonymously. You must show ID to pay and participate, because of payment cards and the dev program signup.

Why should Apple allow anonymous publication on a marketplace which they are ultimately responsible for?

Because there is no alternative that users can choose instead of Apple's marketplace, and with only one source of apps for a billion+ devices and no way to configure those devices to use any other, Apple has effectively banned anonymous publishing for a seventh of Earth.

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#479
post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But Jobs never lost his vision that Apple should sell appliances, and people who wanted to "wrench their own devices" should buy PCs. You present an excellent historical case of how Apple got here, but here's where I see a dichotomy: Back in the day, tools like RezEdit, Hypercard, AppleScript came included. There were countless "apps" to reconfigure how the Mac looked and felt to create a personalized experience. Av…

Speaking of HyperCard: Inspired by a mind-expanding LSD journey in 1985, I designed the HyperCard authoring system that enabled non-programmers to make their own interactive media. HyperCard used a metaphor of stacks of cards containing graphics, text, buttons, and links that could take you to another card. The HyperTalk scripting language implemented by Dan Winkler was a gentle introduction to event-based programmin…

speed is important to you. I can tell because you abbreviated an abbreviation.

> &c

for those not in the know, "etc" is an abbreviation for "et cetera" which is Latin for "and so on."

the Ampersand character itself evolved from the shape of the word "et" which alone is "and" in Latin.

what do you do with all the time you save? :D

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#480
post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Apple Macintosh was released in 1984. Jobs was pushed completely out of the company in 1985. When did RezEdit, Hypercard and AppleScript come out? Without looking it up, I would say after Jobs left Apple.

ResEdit: May 85 Jobs resigns: September 85 HyperCard: August 87 AppleScript: October 93

Counterpoint:

NeXTStep: September 1989.

And then there's Automator: April 2005

https://support.apple.com/guide/automator/welcome/mac

Apple between 1999 and 2012 seemed to put out one banger after another. But I could smell the garbage coming with the original iPhone. It's funny because the iPhone is lovely ... until you get down to the many many desperate attempts at vendor lock-in, the "meh" quality software (NOT compared to Android software, just compared to well-written computer software), and the way everything's locked down. Mehhhhhhhh.

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