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AI Generated Seinfeld banned on Twitch for transphobic jokes

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Re: AI Generated Seinfeld banned on Twitch for transphobic jokes

#471

Post by freejazz »

Teever wrote: post #325
mjamesaustin wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's weird to talk about missing an element of human empathy regarding the topic of trans individuals, whose very existence is unacceptable to a broad swath of the population. 40% of transgender people have attempted suicide. The public dialogue around trans lives is one of very little empathy, respect, or civility. People are on this thread casually debating whether this joke "went to far" or not, while the people w…

> Would it have been OK to make a joke about 9/11 victims while they were still digging people out of the wreckage? "Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh." Do you think its possible that someone doing that digging told a terrible joke when they were doing that digging? Would it be funny if a trans person was the one telling the joke?

And you don't think its possible plenty of people found such a joke distasteful? You act like if you walked the streets of NY after 9/11, making jokes about it, people would be cheering you on... I have a feeling the situation would be quite different.

Re: AI Generated Seinfeld banned on Twitch for transphobic jokes

#472

Post by notch898a »

roughly wrote: post #360
temp_account_32 wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have 40% transgender people attempted suicide primarily because they are being bullied by society or because they have a mental disorder where their body doesn't match their brain and they become depressed because it is physically impossible to reconcile those differences, so they spiral into despair? Genuine question, I just don't know how to tiptoe around this in a 2023 acceptable way without asking it bluntly. Sou…

Research on youth suicide rates shows an extremely high correlation with the family and social environment, in that family support and at least some welcoming spaces dramatically lower suicide rates among trans youth. The Trevor Project collects research on these lines: https://www.thetrevorproject.org/resources/article/facts-abo...

Looked at the page.

Says:

  LGBTQ youth are not inherently prone to suicide risk because of their sexual orientation or gender identity but rather placed at higher risk because of how they are mistreated and stigmatized in society.
This is a remarkable claim that demands proof. This seems to be a well thought out, researched, website therefore it can't be some oversight that they just spout this without evidence.

Re: AI Generated Seinfeld banned on Twitch for transphobic jokes

#473

Post by madeofpalk »

tinus_hn wrote: post #421
timr wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is like saying that having something taken down by a mod on reddit is a "drastic consequence". I mean, sure...the content is removed, but in most cases, the reason for the action is subjective and somewhat arbitrary. To me, this is less a commentary on AI than on the absurd sensitivities of community moderation.

For many people Twitch streams are their primary source of income, this kind of ban can have quite a lot of impact. And then besides the ban there is the chilling effect because no one wants to skirt the rules and risk a ban. And that is what allows social justice warriors to dictate what others can make jokes about.

Does Hacker News have such a chilling effect because it also has rules about what you can and can not post?

Re: AI Generated Seinfeld banned on Twitch for transphobic jokes

#475

Post by freejazz »

geraldwhen wrote: post #398
twodave wrote: post #106

Uncharacteristically off-topic comment from me, I guess, but when do humans get to a point where we no longer have to appeal to the lowest common denominator? How are our relationships supposed to improve if we dub anything that makes us uncomfortable as "taboo" and steer clear of it? I get that on the Internet there is a lot of anonymity (though less than there used to be) that folks tend to abuse, but at the same t…

That ship has sailed, in America at least. There are two sides: one who believes in freedom of speech, and the other that would jail or worse others for their speech. Being honest and open about nearly any topic could get you fired, so it’s much simpler to be highly guarded with who you interact with.

>There are two sides: one who believes in freedom of speech, and the other that would jail or worse others for their speech.

Lol you can't actually be serious?

Re: AI Generated Seinfeld banned on Twitch for transphobic jokes

#476

Post by flangola7 »

causi wrote: post #284
PartiallyTyped wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes because you are treating a sequence of words the same as a pseudorandom generator. The former has a probability distribution of sequences reflective of the dataset and context whereas the latter is pure random chance assuming input seed is random.

It's just a program, though. It has no bigotry. You don't punish a machine, you correct it.

OpenAI (which powers this Seinfeld generator) is putting significant resources into preventing it from creating unsafe and antisocial material. Until that is prefected, outside entities like Twitch can use traditional moderation tools, such as the 14 day ban issued in this case.

Re: AI Generated Seinfeld banned on Twitch for transphobic jokes

#477

Post by sassyonsunday »

robertlagrant wrote: post #447
sassyonsunday wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm transgender. I transitioned 17 years ago. Sometimes I call myself a t-word or tranma (because I transitioned a long time ago I'm only in my early 30's so I guess I have a few years before I'm a literal granny :'[). Should I get canceled because I said the t-word in a gay bar with my besties or when I joke around with my husband and say things like "this is what you get for marrying a t-word"? No. But it's also us…

I've never heard tranma before and it's fantastic! Thanks for articulating this; it's helpful. My only question is: words that are labels don't create hatred, although they might signify it. Will stopping words being used do anything to reduce any hate people feel and/or increase understanding, and conversely will allowing it add any hate to people and/or decrease understanding?

Stopping the words won't stop hate but it can deescalate things and help communication take place. When someone calls me a t-word they're signaling an aggressively negative stance toward me right out of the gate. It raises the tension too high to be able to have meaningful conversation. We all know intuitively that there are things that should be left unsaid in life so that we can get along with others.... Slurs belong to that class of things.

It's not theoretical for me. My FIL doesn't know I'm trans and he loves Fox News and called some person getting covered by Fox a t-word in a really hateful way about two years ago and it's made me feel less comfortable around him. He could have just said "I don't know about this trans stuff" which I get totally but by jumping to a slur he put a barrier up. I've begged my husband to "out" me to his family at some point ... imagine how that would go now. Even assuming he can overcome the fact that his DIL who he's known for the better part of a decade is actually some sort of demon creature from a Tucker Carlson segment, don't you think he's going to think back on all the nasty stuff he said and feel awkward as heck??? Even if he moved on from it, I could never forget or trust him like I would have if he'd only revealed a more measured mistrust of trans people instead of jumping straight to calling us the most hateful thing he could think of.

It would be the same with a stranger. If you call me a slur or use the slur around me without knowing that I AM ONE OF THOSE "SLUR WORDS" it would prevent me from being able to form a relationship with you on equal footing and would make me want to hide who I am from you which just amplifies the level of misunderstanding in the world.

When lots of people are throwing slurs and stuff around in general that feeling of alienation becomes a suffocating amorphous cloud that covers you up and makes you want to retreat from society. I guess that's a feature and not a bug for the people using the slurs. They want us to stay in the gay bars and away from them and their kind but.... that's not healthy. We should all be able to participate in public life on as near to equal footing as possible.

Some people might say it's my fault because I take slurs personally but... I'm just human here. I don't wanna spend my life placating people who use slurs to describe me. I'll bet it's the same for members of other groups who have slurs that people use against them. Once somebody uses those slurs against you it's hard to build a bridge with them which is sad.

Re: AI Generated Seinfeld banned on Twitch for transphobic jokes

#478

Post by mancerayder »

notRobot wrote: post #304
Mizza wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of humanity's best art, literature, music, and comedy is about people experiencing trauma. Being able to joke amidst suffering is the very thing that makes us human. It's also a critical part of empathy itself.

These are jokes at the expense of people widely discriminated against (and in many parts of the world, outright killed). It's not funny if you're punching down on minorities. It's just fucking sad.

Doesn't it depend on who's in the audience? You make a joke at someone's face, you're the baddie. You make a joke in a show I specifically went to go see you for, or I clicked on your recording to watch you, it's on me.

Generically and universally decrying punching down is extreme and would require spying/policing everyone to implement.

Re: AI Generated Seinfeld banned on Twitch for transphobic jokes

#479

Post by yesco »

mynameisvlad wrote: post #393
yesco wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It's weird to talk about missing an element of human empathy regarding the topic of trans individuals, whose very existence is unacceptable to a broad swath of the population. I certainly won't deny that trans people go through a lot, but stuff like this is honestly getting hard to take seriously. It's commonly repeated but going on about their "existence" itself being denied just sounds over dramatic. I don't think…

What even is this argument? “Your life admittedly sucks but I think you blow it out of proportion so I can’t feel empathy for you”

No, it's just that whenever they seem to be brought up in discussion aggressive "supporters" come out of the woodwork, over dramatically act like the world is ending over the smallest things and misrepresent my arguments with the most bad faith interpretation on purpose. Like you are doing now.

It's hard for me to empathize with a group that increasingly looks less like a marginalized group, and more like some fanatical religion that somehow has gained an almost ridiculous amount of influence over every major institution and social media platform. And I say this as someone who was originally 100% on board.

A trans person could insult my identity, race and sexuality without any consequences whatsoever, but the reverse has the potential of permanently ending my social life and livelihood. Of course as the magnitude of this disparity keeps increasing, my empathy, and sympathy would decrease along with it.

If anything, I'm actually starting to become afraid of trans people, not because of their transition, but due to their incredible authority.

Re: AI Generated Seinfeld banned on Twitch for transphobic jokes

#480

Post by freejazz »

nomel wrote: post #371
PartiallyTyped wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let us not forget certain fascists who claimed they’d outlaw all trans people and force them to detransition. Let us not forget how many trans people have died at the hands of bigots.

Please make discussion possible by giving specifics rather than using unnecessary secretive terms like “certain people” and “they”. Forcing people to guess should be avoided, especially since not everyone is where you’re from. Links to examples are also helpful.

Utah just banned transitioning youth. Google is your friend, no need to guess.
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