I liberate the ending to Minecraft from Microsoft and give it to you • Hacker News Board

Re: I liberate the ending to Minecraft from Microsoft and give it to you

#471

Post by bitexploder » Thu, Dec 08, 2022, 2:11 PM UTC

mikl wrote: post #467

€20'000 for a poem sounds like a pretty reasonable deal. Not sure why this guy thinks he deserves more. It’s not like it made a massive difference to the experience of playing Minecraft. I’ve finished the game several times, and I don’t remember a single word of the poem, just vaguely that there was a wistful poem there. As for the legal fantasies, the email discussion about using the poem in the game and him accepti…

Never knew there was an end poem. I just build on servers with my kids. Played for about 13 years now. Author is delusional about his value vs minecraft’s value. It probably didn’t need the end and definitely didn’t need the end poem.

Re: I liberate the ending to Minecraft from Microsoft and give it to you

#472

Post by zimpenfish » Thu, Dec 08, 2022, 2:14 PM UTC

microsoftdoes wrote: post #462

zimpenfish wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a contract could be implied by conduct of the parties There are other cases, though, where the courts have declined to imply transfer of copyright or license - even with a written contract - when it hasn't been explicitly specified. cf https://www.albright-ip.co.uk/2013/04/implied-assignments/ for one example > The idea that just because there isn't a written contract that he magically retains the rights is magical…

> IANAL I can tell. None of what you wrote, which is mostly wrong, matters. Microsoft bought Mojang not specific property of Mojang.

> Microsoft bought Mojang not specific property of Mojang.

[1] says "When licences are acquired as part of an asset transaction, the contracts are taken over. In that case, the selling and buying parties need the cooperation of the licensor. This cooperation can take place before or possibly after the takeover. If the licence is not transferable, there will in principle not be a legally valid transfer unless the IP right holder in question gives his consent to the transfer of the licence."

Do you have a link to suggest that these definitely-are-lawyers are wrong in this interpretation?

[1] https://www.blatterlegal.com/en/intellectual-property/transf...

Re: I liberate the ending to Minecraft from Microsoft and give it to you

#473

Post by tokai » Thu, Dec 08, 2022, 2:14 PM UTC

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #445

orlp wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never even looked at the poem and have beaten Minecraft many times. I'm probably not the target audience though, I generally skip quest text in games.

You should read it. IMO it transforms Minecraft from being just an ordinary game experience into being art, it makes the context of what you've been doing, in playing Minecraft, into something like folklore. Late at night, having defeated the Ender dragon, having spent months in the game, it turns that moment into an almost spiritual experience.

I thought it is way too much, and not at all in line with the feeling of mc. Cringe is the word the youngsters use AFAIR.

Re: I liberate the ending to Minecraft from Microsoft and give it to you

#474

Post by 3np » Thu, Dec 08, 2022, 2:14 PM UTC

iainmerrick wrote: post #366

3np wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like there was no exclusivity agreement.

But the point is, assuming Charlie is a good agent, Julian would also have made more money (and with less effort) because Charlie would have put in the work to ensure Julian got a good deal.

The point I was replying to was that OP screwed over their agent, which is not fair.

Your point that OP would have been way better of if they did let their agent handle it from the beginning was made quite clear already:

> Looking back, I can see that I should, at this point, have handed the conversation over to my agent, Charlie, who negotiates my book deals with publishers, and who is a complete darling, and good at this sort of stuff. But I got stuck. I think I thought that bringing in my agent would potentially mess up this pure art relationship. Maybe he would be too ruthless, and it would all fall apart! Of course, now I can see that it would have had the opposite effect; Markus and I could have talked art, and Carl and Charlie could have talked money, and everyone would have been much happier.

Re: I liberate the ending to Minecraft from Microsoft and give it to you

#475

Post by xyzelement » Thu, Dec 08, 2022, 2:17 PM UTC

FamosoRandom wrote: post #198

operator-name wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's quite intersting seeing the difference in focus and tone between HN and the Minecraft subreddit. Although the end poem has received criticism here, it's obvious from the thread that it's touched a lot of people. Being friends and known a small number of "artists", the difference in mindset was extremely apparent - some of them just think and see the world fundimental very differently from the way I do. Many acti…

I find it hilarious that we both wrote the same idea pratically at the same time, are you me from another universe ? or maybe I am you ?

You are both pure love.

(In ten years, I will complain about you. I wrote you this poetic line because I thought we are friends)

Re: I liberate the ending to Minecraft from Microsoft and give it to you

#476

Post by 3np » Thu, Dec 08, 2022, 2:17 PM UTC

cmeacham98 wrote: post #351

3np wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How could you possibly read that into it? The only blame I see assigned in the text is self-blame. Select snips: > I just misunderstood what was going on. > Now, Carl didn’t do anything wrong here. Carl is not the baddie either. He was a CEO, and major shareholder, behaving the way a CEO and major shareholder is supposed to behave. The misunderstanding was all mine. > But that anger was of course misplaced. If I had…

While the author says this in a few places, the picture he tries to paint is one of a grand misunderstanding. Both sides of the communication just weren't understanding each other. But the reality is that _all_ of the misunderstanding comes from him. There is no "mutual misunderstanding", Mojang understood the conversation perfectly well. The author asked for an offer, Mojang offered $20k, and the author accepted. It…

It was very much mutual. Mojang seemed to have been of the understanding that they paid for more than just the work done and the right to use the poem in the agreed initial release of the game, which was a major misunderstanding on their part. IP transfer was not part of the agreement.

It is what it is, everyone involved probably learned some form of lesson, and I don't see why we need to create villains or victims in this story.

More fundamentally, it takes two to tango. Just because the perspective of Mojang is the more common one in the industry doesn't make it the more "correct" interpretation. It's very much a two-way street and it's on both parties to make sure they understand each other when things are not explicitly spelled out and agreed upon.

Re: I liberate the ending to Minecraft from Microsoft and give it to you

#477

Post by bena » Thu, Dec 08, 2022, 2:17 PM UTC

bambax wrote: post #315

Benjamin_Dobell wrote: post #40

I feel for the guy, making a living off of art is difficult. However, with an extensive email chain explaining the story was written as the ending of Minecraft, even going into detail about how it was to be displayed in game, an agreed upon offer (if a bit vague), and then an exchange of funds - with no immediate attempt to return said funds. I'm no lawyer, but that sounds a lot like a legally binding agreement. > So…

That last quote is damning. The game works well without an ending poem -- or an ending, for that matter. I don't play Minecraft but my kids do, and I don't think they know Minecraft has an ending? I certainly didn't. I always thought Minecraft was this unlimited platform where you build things with no specific purpose, for the pleasure of building, like an infinite Lego set. That said, the rant, while much too long i…

Yeah. I was in on early builds of Minecraft. I've never seen the end poem. Had no idea it even existed.

The entire post reads like really sour grapes from someone who believes his contribution is way more important than it is. He thinks he deserves a significant higher chunk than what he was paid.

He also acts like he has a leg to stand on and is magnanimously deciding not to bring the hammer down. No. He's going to get laughed out of the lawyer's office. It's not even going to sniff a court. I can imagine what happened.

Markus and Carl were talking with their lawyers about what was needed to facilitate the Microsoft deal. Mojang's lawyers notified them to cases like this, where there's an unsigned contract floating about. They said, get that signed so Microsoft doesn't potentially pull the deal over potential issues. Microsoft, in their due diligence, also had their lawyers combing over Mojang's contracts, assets, and liabilities. Microsoft came across this contract, meetings were had, they found out about the email chain, etc. And Microsoft's lawyers decided this was not an issue. So at that point, Mojang didn't care. Because they didn't have to.

Markus and Carl didn't tell this guy about the deal because it wasn't his business. He was an artist contracted for a bit of poetry. For all intents and purposes, everyone at Mojang considered their business with him over.

Re: I liberate the ending to Minecraft from Microsoft and give it to you

#478

Post by NikolaNovak » Thu, Dec 08, 2022, 2:19 PM UTC

philipov wrote: post #455

bambax wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That last quote is damning. The game works well without an ending poem -- or an ending, for that matter. I don't play Minecraft but my kids do, and I don't think they know Minecraft has an ending? I certainly didn't. I always thought Minecraft was this unlimited platform where you build things with no specific purpose, for the pleasure of building, like an infinite Lego set. That said, the rant, while much too long i…

Minecraft has an ending because people complained to Notch over twitter that it's not really a game if it doesn't have an ending.

It's fascinating, I play video games with my wife. She's never been a "solo gamer" but a "social gamer" - watched and played with her big brother when growing up, then guitar hero and such, some arcade games. We finished firewatch, tale of two sons, neir automata, machinarium/botanicula/samorost, days of tentacle, overcooked,it takes 2, the recent Stray, etc etc together.

But she straight up does not UNDERSTAND a game like Sim city, or rim world. Why would anybody "play" that, is her perspective. It doesn't have a sufficiently, singularly clear narrative, flow, goal, beginning and an end. We talked about such games a few times and I have not really succeeded in moving the needle - not in her being interested in such games, but even remotely comprehending their existence or allure.

I guess it was my wife's friends that felt minecraft really needed an ending :-)

Re: I liberate the ending to Minecraft from Microsoft and give it to you

#479

Post by thesausageking » Thu, Dec 08, 2022, 2:19 PM UTC

I asked ChatGPT to come up with an ending poem for Minecraft. Here's what it wrote:

  Farewell, dear player, as you venture forth,
  
  Leaving this world of blocks and pixels behind.
  
  But know that the memories you've made here
  
  Will stay with you, etched in your mind.
  
  For in this game, we built and explored,
  
  Creating our own little universe.
  
  But now it's time to move on,
  
  To face new challenges and opportunities.
  
  As you go, remember the lessons you learned,
  
  The friendships you forged, and the adventures you had.
  
  And know that, though this game may end,
  
  The universe itself is vast and ever-changing.
  
  So go forth, brave player, and make your mark,
  
  For the universe is yours to discover.

Re: I liberate the ending to Minecraft from Microsoft and give it to you

#480

Post by neilv » Thu, Dec 08, 2022, 2:19 PM UTC

iepathos wrote: post #192

The person who really got screwed in all this is poor Charlie, the agent. Here he is managing deals for Julian getting a percentage of those deals and Julian it sounds like is not making much, so Charlie probably isn't making much off Julian either. Julian goes and basically gives away his most successful work to ruthless Mojang and Charlie gets nothing for it at all because Julian keeps Charlie in the dark. Charlie…

Seems like both the agent and the artist got scrod.

The epic-length post is like those movies that would've been 10 minutes if the people just talked with each other.

In this case, if the artist had just told the agent what they wanted, agent would've gotten to do their job, and artist would've avoided years of turmoil.