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Kite is saying farewell and open-sourcing its code

kite.com

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Re: Kite is saying farewell and open-sourcing its code

#471

Post by the__alchemist »

mythz wrote: post #267
irrational wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m a web developer. My company pays for JetBrains IntelliJ for me. And I love it. But, if I had to pay for it out of my own pocket, I’d use VS Code instead. I’ve used both and IntelliJ is superior to VS Code, but not to such an extent that I would pay my own money for it. But I’m more than happy to have my company buy it for me.

JetBrains IDE's is the most notable exception of dev tools I personally pay for, insane value and productivity makes it a no-brainer purchase given its instant ROI from time saved. Life's too short to not maximize your productivity for a few $'s.

Same. That and Sublime. JB for the unrivaled power; Sublime for unrivaled responsiveness.

Re: Kite is saying farewell and open-sourcing its code

#472

Post by H1Supreme »

javajosh wrote: post #255
andyfleming wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a product that I actually _would_ pay for as an individual. It's reasonably priced and worth the increase in efficiency and better experience. Plus their pricing is fair and flexible.

Yes, it seems fair to me to spend real money on Jetbrain's tools, if you like them. It is strange how reluctant programmers are to spend on tools even though they are, as a rule, quite willing to let themselves be paid handsomely for their services. Yet graphic designers pay for Adobe's tools. Who can read this riddle?

Designers have to spend money on their tools. There's no other option. Developer's don't. Plus, developers can make their own tools if they need to.

Re: Kite is saying farewell and open-sourcing its code

#473

Post by dijit »

LtWorf wrote: post #455
dijit wrote: post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which category? Ones I excluded for bring "not worth it" are Lens ($20/user/mo), Snyk ($139/user/month) and Postman ($36/user/month) - contrast those with Gitlabs pricing to understand the value trade-off.

What's the point of using snyk AND copilot? You either care about licenses of dependencies or just decide copyright doesn't apply to you :D Seems that using both is a contradiction.

Snyk is not just for licenses, it's for security scanning.

They have a bunch of rules for IaC that prevent default behaviour from biting you in the butt.

Re: Kite is saying farewell and open-sourcing its code

#474

Post by marviio »

Yizahi wrote: post #426
lycopodiopsida wrote: post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should an multinational IT company aiming at developers talk in a local language? How does a heritage of founders matters? Google is half a russian company by that metric, as in "Sergey Brin". JetBrains is a Czech company because it was created in Czech Republic and is operated from Czech Republic. They've had significant development resources in pre-war Russia, like many big companies, because it was a cheap and…

The war started in Feb 2014, just saying. JB closed offices only when they become afraid of getting squashed by new USA secondary sanctions, not because they opposed war.

JetBrains where silent when the war started. I was a bit worried what would happen. Then they announced the closing of the dev offices in Russia. They said that they needed to extract some people before announcing. It’s not an easy task relocating hundreds of people.

Re: Kite is saying farewell and open-sourcing its code

#475

Post by [deleted] »

mythz wrote: post #267
irrational wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m a web developer. My company pays for JetBrains IntelliJ for me. And I love it. But, if I had to pay for it out of my own pocket, I’d use VS Code instead. I’ve used both and IntelliJ is superior to VS Code, but not to such an extent that I would pay my own money for it. But I’m more than happy to have my company buy it for me.

JetBrains IDE's is the most notable exception of dev tools I personally pay for, insane value and productivity makes it a no-brainer purchase given its instant ROI from time saved. Life's too short to not maximize your productivity for a few $'s.

[deleted]

Re: Kite is saying farewell and open-sourcing its code

#477

Post by inDigiNeous »

nikkwong wrote: post #278
javajosh wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it seems fair to me to spend real money on Jetbrain's tools, if you like them. It is strange how reluctant programmers are to spend on tools even though they are, as a rule, quite willing to let themselves be paid handsomely for their services. Yet graphic designers pay for Adobe's tools. Who can read this riddle?

> if you like them. Important caveat here. My only exposure to JetBrains had been through Intellij which was thoroughly unpleasant around 2012-2013. That impression has left me forever sour towards them. Surprised to hear people say that it could be a step up from VSCode. It looks like "Fleet" is their VSCode competitor? I'm not sure if the homepage does a good job at communicating how this improves over of VSCode. F…

I have to say I had the same experience with IntelliJ when developing for Android in 2013-15 or so. This year when trialing CLion I was very positively surprised by the evolution of their platform, it's easily the most usable environment for C++ development I have used.

I have experience from pure VIM, VSCode, Visual Studio for Windows, the reliable refactoring features alone are worth the price. With VSCode I would find the refactoring support not reliable and the intellisense features also might just stop working randomly depending on the project.

Prompted me to move to WebStorm also for web development, and I must say I have been very positively surprised there also.

Seems they have made some important strides in the past years, can highly recommend testing their environments out.

Re: Kite is saying farewell and open-sourcing its code

#478

Post by plgonzalezrx8 »

"we were 10+ years too early to market, i.e. the tech is not ready yet."

"Our diagnosis is that individual developers do not pay for tools."

"We built the most-advanced AI for helping developers, but it fell short of the 10× improvement required to break through because today’s state of the art for ML on code is not good enough."

So basically, everyone's fault but their own. Got it.

Edit: Also I want to say, that WE DO pay for stuff if it brings us value. Out of my pocket I pay for JetBrains, Github, Temius, and the SublimeText 4.

Re: Kite is saying farewell and open-sourcing its code

#479

Post by bravura »

bombolo wrote: post #462
julianeon wrote: post #459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but the work you do has commercial value to you also, based on its merits alone. Example: without Intellij, you deploy some back end code interacting with an OCR solution. Example: with Intellij, you can build the whole OCR solution yourself. Doing the latter translates long term into higher salaries and more money in your pocket. You have to talk about what you did in interviews and your answers will be reflect…

So you are saying that Intellij and IDE/completion make people smarter and more capable rather than a bit faster? Do you have any source for this very surprising claim?

You need supporting data that using high quality tools to ship next-level product will, in fact, upskill you as a developer?

Can you list any alternate ways that one upskills?

Re: Kite is saying farewell and open-sourcing its code

#480

Post by zamubafoo »

lewisl9029 wrote: post #413
lewisl9029 wrote: post #405

Seeing a lot of comments trying to dispute the claim that "individual developers do not pay for tools". The claim does invite these kinds of disputes since it's so absolutist, but I do believe there is some truth to it, at least if we take it as a generalization (rather than a literal statement). Anyone who's either worked at a developer tooling company or tried to sell to developers themselves (I personally did both…

Developers know much more than other professions about how much SaaS products cost to run in terms of infra (i.e. very little for most products), so are much more likely to anchor on infra costs when considering whether a price is reasonable during purchasing decision than basically any other group. Most SaaS are priced completely independently of infra costs (or any other costs really), but we are much less likely t…

I completely agree with you but it's surprising that the biggest factors aren't being brought up.

Most people won't pay for a ton of small services since it adds up. There is a minimal threshold to pass to make online transactions financially reasonable, making the pricing models make little sense for most services. Given that most cheap services (ie. those at or below $5/mo) don't have large infrastructure costs, it's an even harder sell. Not to mention that sometimes people rather watch movies or television than get tools to make them more productive.

This is doubly compounded when you look at opportunity costs. With the amount of software that can be self hosted, the costs isn't just the comparison of having the tool or not or even other developer focused offerings, but instead having this tool (or access to it) versus any other tool that can be self-hosted (including those that might not exist yet).

Also, lets say we spend $5/mo, well for that we can host our own server which can easily be used for more than one purpose (with WireGuard now even the smallest VPS can be used to saturate most home links and bypass CGNAT easily). Increasing the monthly spending just increases the amount of opportunities.

This of course doesn't touch the elephant in the room which is privacy.

For the regular user privacy isn't a huge deal for these small services. For the average reasonable user that doesn't upload sensitive data, at worst it would be something like a personal photo being seen.

On the other hand as a software developers using these tools is a lot more complicated. Licensing, copyright, and possible work contracts start to matter. If the service interfaces with code (like Kite or GitHub Co-pilot) then you get into a some serious murkiness due to the fact that you don't really know what they are doing with it on their end. Even the things like telemetry and what type of data is being sent back matter in corporate environments.

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