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The United States’ Unamendable Constitution

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471–480 of 747 posts

Re: The United States’ Unamendable Constitution

#471

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No intelligent person thinks that we got 250 years of relative peace and prosperity by randon luck Yes, to the extent that the US had more peace and prosperity than, say, European states, most intelligent people with even modest knowledge attribute that not to random chance but to three major factors: (1) The Pacific Ocean, (2) The Atlantic Ocean, (3) The extremely small number of remotely near-peer powers that hav…

Which of course explains why the rest of the Americas have also been so peaceful and prosperous.

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Re: The United States’ Unamendable Constitution

#472

Earlier quoted context omitted.

hmmm arguably capitalism was still required. Both the USSR and China both went through (at different times!) great famines due to their collectivization of agriculture. Further, their agricultural practices in general were learned from the capitalist countries and neither produced / produce enough. Both the USSR and China did / currently rely heavily on food imports. Arguably, they only escaped feudalism because capi…

> Both the USSR and China both went through (at different times!) great famines due to their collectivization of agriculture. didn't the ussr squeeze those farmers so tight to get industral equipment out of the capitalists by trading grain? yes, the capitalists graciously supported the ussr, the cold war was actually a big hug! because they traded with capitalist nations they couldn't have existed without capitalism.…

How anyone in this day can still support such blatantly despotic nations is a mystery to me. Even if you believe capitalist nations are equally authoritarian, which they clearly aren’t, then you’d still have to admit that they at least have the decency to conceal it by not having concentration camps, political and religious persecution, dictators for life or just straight up starving their populace.

Re: The United States’ Unamendable Constitution

#473

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a few reasons this broke down... 1. The 17th amendment (1912) - Electing senators by popular vote broke the state representation in the federal government. States no longer had representation to protect their sovereignty. 2. The federal reserve act (1913) - enables government to self-fund by printing money and enforces everyone onto a single, centrally controlled bank. 3. The 16th amendment (1913) - Federal i…

https://wtfhappenedin1971.com/ There's another critical date: 1971. That was the year that Nixon ended the Bretton Woods System. [1] Bretton Woods was a defacto global* monetary system. Other currencies were pegged to the dollar and the dollar was convertible to gold at a fixed rate. This created a sort of soft backing to the dollar. After it ended the final constraint the 'government printing' (this is not an entire…

> I suspect when this current system we've created blows up, it's going to make 1929 look like a bull market.

I don't think it will completely blow up, but there will be enough economic pain inflicted such that the ordinary person will be happy to accept a central bank digital currency.

The cogs are already turning: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/g7-public-policy-...

Re: The United States’ Unamendable Constitution

#474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the same way that email is easier to silently spoof/alter/discard than a handwritten letter. Voting machines without paper backup suffer the same vulnerabilities, with much greater cost, and significantly less money being put toward securing them. A better question is: “what do digital only voting machines do BETTER than paper ballots?” I’m interested to hear your take!

> I’m interested to hear your take! Don’t really have one, I’m more interested in a study of which protocol is more secure, higher integrity. Gut instinct is that voting machines have a longer/stronger audit chain, are automated & don’t get tired. But of course, auditors get tired and aren’t automated, then again, is voting software “really that hard?”. But then again that audit chain could be stupid and expensive an…

I understand your points and concerns but I believe you are operating under the assumption that paper ballots must be counted by human auditors. This is not the case. The issue lies not with automated systems, but in a total reliance upon them, without paper fallback.

The system functions ideally like a scantron system for tests — that is , a standardized bubble form (like a ballot), is read by a machine, which tallies the results automatically.

Crucially, however: if the programming or capability of the tallying machine is ever called into question, a paper ballot allows for referencing a physical, inked record of the voter’s original intent, far more immutably than any *purely* digital record could ever be.

Part of this equation is the fact that current systems are all fractured, with control spread across private industry at the state level, and levels of oversight varying wildly (often from election cycle to election cycle). A paper record is helpful to avoid rogue counties/townships/states etc from simply rewriting history as they see fit. On paper? A significant effort to conceal and alter. Digitally? One script. It just depends on who is in control at any given time.

Also: the trouble with a centralized, verifiable database of voter records is that unsavory entities will inevitably figure out how to look people up themselves, leading also inevitably to voter intimidation and suppression, not to mention violence.

So your points are all correct, but the need for a paper record remains, in my opinion. Testing as you suggest would be nice, but I’m also uncertain what it would further prove, given what to me appears to be an obvious logical extrapolation based on present realities.

Thank you for engaging so rigorously, I really do appreciate you taking the time and hope you feel respected in this conversation. I recognize that this is a contentious arena of issues and I have no wish to batter anyone, although I feel strongly about my position.

EDIT: the point I was trying to make (somewhat glibly) with my prior comment was this: paper ballots work, have worked, and will continue to work for the foreseeable future, unchanged. And it’s critical they function as unimpeachably as possible. So why change the system without a clear, significant benefit for doing so? My understanding is that critical programs like nuclear weaponry don’t generally run on modern, connected platforms — older, offline tech is fully known, and often inherently presents less attack surface in a modern world. The same would seem to be true of individual paper ballots, to me.

Re: The United States’ Unamendable Constitution

#475
post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Name the fucking enemy. Starts with a 'C' and ends in 'apitalism'. Read Richard Wolff's Democracy at Work . This is the way.

Quoted post unavailable.

The current crop of über wealth are supporters of the Democratic party. Radical environmentalists are probably the most anti modern people out there at the moment. I wouldn’t bring “keeping blacks down” into this considering the track record of Democrat policies and their impact on the black community.

Re: The United States’ Unamendable Constitution

#476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> population shifts are ongoing and the coastal blue populations are the most rapidly aging in the country But they also have longer lifespans by a couple of years. > increasingly red US born Hispanic populations are the most rapidly growing. A lot of those US born Hispanics are in California and very blue (thanks to Pete Wilson).

Amazing how California shifted from reliable Red (Ronald Reagan era) to reliable blue. What was the factor in this seemingly quick shift - population shifts ???.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_Reform_and_Control...

Re: The United States’ Unamendable Constitution

#477
post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The primary flaw in the constitution is that smaller states have disproportionate power (Senate and Electoral College) and will never give up or dilute this power. Even worse, equal representation for each state in the Senate is literally the only part of the constitution that cannot be amended. So even with overwhelming popular support there is an absolute barrier to reform.

On the bright side, senatorial races can't be gerrymandered. On the less bright side, voter suppression and disenfranchisement can fix them a senate race as well as any other.

Senatorial races were gerrymandered in the 19th century when they were converting territories into states. We are stuck with the results of those political battles forever.

Re: The United States’ Unamendable Constitution

#478

"Seventy-two per cent of Republicans think that the Constitution is basically fine as is; seventy-two per cent of Democrats disagree." Of course this has nothing to do the actual Constitution. It's a statement about each party's (dis)satisfaction with the current success of their party. The optimist in me wants to believe that even in this polarized culture politicians could compromise and find a middle ground on man…

> It's a statement about each party's (dis)satisfaction with the current success of their party. This requires clarification. If our government was elected based on a "one person one vote" principle, Republicans would be nearly guaranteed to lose the presidency and Congress. Since 1992 there have been 8 presidential elections. Republicans only won the popular vote once (2004) but also won the presidency in 2000 and 2…

A note on the electoral college: the size of it is determined by the number of senators and number of representatives per state. The house of representatives can easily change it's size and reapportion seats more fairly, and therefore reapportion electoral college votes more in line with the population. States like California could easily outweigh states like Wyoming in such an endeavor and make it happen, but still they don't. Why? They should want to increase the power of their state in the house, no? Perhaps it has something to do with their power as an individual representative in the house, but whatever the reason, it isn't a problem strictly caused by the constitution, it is a problem that congress refuses to solve that they could very easily.

Re: The United States’ Unamendable Constitution

#479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there is a strong enough popular support for taking more extreme actions, then there should be strong enough support to change the constitution the normal way. For people who want the constitution changed, thats the dilemma they have to deal with. If they don't have enough support to do it the regular way, then maybe the more silly and extreme solutions aren't justified either.

The primary flaw in the constitution is that smaller states have disproportionate power (Senate and Electoral College) and will never give up or dilute this power. Even worse, equal representation for each state in the Senate is literally the only part of the constitution that cannot be amended. So even with overwhelming popular support there is an absolute barrier to reform.

The problem with the electoral college is not one with the constitution. The house of representatives could easily reapportion seats and expand it's size to be more in line with the populations of the states, and these readjust the electoral votes to be closer to the popular vote. But they don't. Why? Perhaps they give up more as individuals than they gain in doing so?

Re: The United States’ Unamendable Constitution

#480
post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Population shifts mean an ever-shrinking minority of the population can block changes to the constitution. It’s barely even double digits at this point. Constitutional amendments were supposed to be easier than right to rebellion. That’s not really the case any more. At the same time, the supreme court is just ignoring the law, over the objections of 66-75% of the population (depending on the ruling). These are dark…

> Constitutional amendments were supposed to be easier than right to rebellion. I think they were more worried about entire _states_ going into rebellion and not factions of populations spread across them. > These are dark times for US democracy. I don't think that's warranted. I would say these are the growing pains of a country now fully entering the age of always available connectivity with a founding document cre…

Independent State Legislature theory potentially being concurred with by SC and the ability of state houses obtained through gerrymandering to overturn any election they disagree with says that indeed it IS dark times for US democracy.
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