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Why aren't smart people happier?

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Re: Why aren't smart people happier?

#471

Post by necovek »

marvin wrote: post #187
necovek wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article covers this as well: the author claims that studies show that all of those different intelligences correlate, so it is not very useful to categorise them individually. The thing that is a main driver to "climbing to higher positions" is usually desire and motivation, which is a cultural trait. Intelligence has a high correlation because there are plenty of motivated people across all levels of intelligenc…

> all of those different intelligences correlate, so it is not very useful to categorise them individually Maybe it's not useful for the sake of discussion to list them individually, but it's definitely useful to measure them individually. Or you'll mistake someone who's a master of rotating abstract shapes in their head for someone who manage to get things done in a complex environments. The full-scale IQ tests (WAI…

I am not making this claim, the article is based on a number of studies measuring different types of intelligence.

It actually does say that they are all almost exactly the same (sure, highly intelligent individuals will score better on one set of problems than on another, but they will score highly on most of them; similar for average or lower intelligence folks — their scores on each of them correlate but are not in a strict linear relationship). That suggests that they are ultimately one and the same (as per those studies).

Re: Why aren't smart people happier?

#472

Post by bobsmooth »

DiffEq wrote: post #439
migro23 wrote: post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some elaboration on your opinion would provide a greater contribution to the discussion. As an aside however, 'Henry' in Oscar Wilde's A Picture of Dorian Gray provided the most beautiful and articulate defence of hedonism I have ever read. But I am still convinced that in relation to the project of the promotion of ones long-term well-being hedonism is a philosophical and psychological dead-end. In my own experience…

I don't want to speak for him, but I suppose I am until he pipes up, but I think bobsmooth was being sarcastic.

No, I was serious. Living in the moment and enjoying it is how I try to live my life.

Re: Why aren't smart people happier?

#474

Post by BroadbandSurfer »

Because we can tell whats going to happen sooner or later and don't get all giggly when some bimbo on tv or politician says the world will be a Utopia where we get rich by being cool people and all have playboy models in bed with us. When Gas and technology prices skyrocket and people find it entertaining, then nothing good is on its way. RaspberryPi had to hike up prices for the first time ever but you think awesome and quality made battery powered vehicles are just around the corner and with and afforable enough for the majority?

Hell if I know, Right now is the best time to focus on personal lives and relationships or all this mass bs will never let you be happy... None of it matters for us..

Re: Why aren't smart people happier?

#475

Post by dusted »

tasuki wrote: post #247
gorjusborg wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Pleasure is not the right goal. Homeostasis, balance, equanimity, peace are much better. Along with these, sustainability. Imagine finding balance and peace, but seeing clearly that the tools and techniques used to get and stay there are temporary. Pretty unsettling. We have to get there in ways that are long lasting and unlikely to change radically.

Caring about sustainability makes people especially miserable. Perhaps underscoring the point that pleasure is not the right goal...

I think it depends what kind of sustainability.. The sustainability of a state of being is probably a worthwhile goal..

The ecological kind, misery path for sure.. Until entropy can be reversed at least.

Re: Why aren't smart people happier?

#476

Post by shafyy »

miketery wrote: post #279
shafyy wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm just saying that comment I replied to makes this sound as universal truth. Wanting children and being happy about having children are subjective things. There are people who don't have children and are happy about it, people who have children but are unhappy about it and everything inbetween. People who want to have children should have them, and people who don't want to have children shoudln't have them =)

These debates always devolve into people pointing at outliers. Simply compare the two curves. Those with children vs those without. Your comment stands if you look at outliers, GP stands if you take the curves.

So you're saying that people who don't want children in fact should have children to be happier? What a presumptuous thing to say.

Re: Why aren't smart people happier?

#477

Post by migro23 »

bobsmooth wrote: post #472
DiffEq wrote: post #439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want to speak for him, but I suppose I am until he pipes up, but I think bobsmooth was being sarcastic.

No, I was serious. Living in the moment and enjoying it is how I try to live my life.

If you are equating 'hedonism' and 'living in the moment' then we have a language issue. Which is understandable as our language for such concepts and our language for mental states in general is not very well defined. My interpretation of hedonism is seeking pleasure for pleasures sake. Pleasure is the end goal and the more that is experienced the better!

Living in the moment is a stated goal of many contemplative disciplines including ones that explicitly eschew any hedonistic tendencies by practicing some flavour of asceticism.

Actually an argument could be made that hedonism can lead you astray from the present moment as your yearnings and desires increase for more and more pleasure the more you try and satiate these desires which usually entails some yearning for some pleasure experience in the future.

Living in the moment it seems is closer to the bullseye in terms of ones ability to experience well being. Hedonism just breeds further desire which by definition gives rise to what Buddhists termed Dukkha which is often poorly translated as 'suffering' but a more apt word would be 'dissatisfaction' (1)

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dukkha

Re: Why aren't smart people happier?

#478

Post by ahartmetz »

ycombinete wrote: post #466
dusted wrote: post #34

I'm not especially smart, or happy, but, personally, I don't know how to be it, or what it feels like. I know pleasure, but being in a constant pleasurable state is not what is meant by happiness as far as I know. Slavoj Žižek (someone who does seem to be especially smart): “Happiness was never important. The problem is that we don't know what we really want. What makes us happy is not to get what we want. But to dre…

I can’t stand Zizek’s verbose nonsense. In this one paragraph he makes like 5 absurd statements one after the other, with such confidence and certainty that they look smart. The closing sentiment takes the cake for me. A neat little shanty of the mindset of the communist smart men.

Not to mention that Zizek talking sounds like someone slurping ramen.

I understand the quotation (and only partially agree), but only because I've seen the same thing expressed much better, and without the absurd parts, in... the Unabomber manifesto. Basically, people need sensible difficulties to overcome.

Re: Why aren't smart people happier?

#479

Post by migro23 »

riversflow wrote: post #447
migro23 wrote: post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some elaboration on your opinion would provide a greater contribution to the discussion. As an aside however, 'Henry' in Oscar Wilde's A Picture of Dorian Gray provided the most beautiful and articulate defence of hedonism I have ever read. But I am still convinced that in relation to the project of the promotion of ones long-term well-being hedonism is a philosophical and psychological dead-end. In my own experience…

> Generally the people who were most concerned about others well-being were gifted with a light and pleasant demeanour Kinda like the light and pleasant demeanor of Robin Williams? This is crazy ovservation bias, you have no idea of the actual, lived experiences of these people. Honestly, my experience is that people who really suffer with depression are consistently some of the nicest, most thoughtful people. They u…

Completely agree. My views stated above however don't rest purely on these observations because the data (my observations) are inherently noisy. A certain amount of inference needs to be made based on direct behavioural observation of others and with any inference comes a margin of uncertainty. I outlined these observations in response to someone who seemed to object or disagree with my original comment but gave very little in terms of supporting argument. But my views on these matters do not solely rest on observations of others but also by my own experience as a conscious and self aware (I think :) being and reading about the ideas of what others think about this issue of "happiness".

Disclaimer: I don't think my original comment is correct in any absolute sense, but I do believe that it is a more promising and fruitful direction than merely perusing pleasure for its own sake, based on my own experience and the observed behavioral and emotional patterns of some of my most intimate relationships

Re: Why aren't smart people happier?

#480

Post by bobsmooth »

migro23 wrote: post #477
bobsmooth wrote: post #472

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I was serious. Living in the moment and enjoying it is how I try to live my life.

If you are equating 'hedonism' and 'living in the moment' then we have a language issue. Which is understandable as our language for such concepts and our language for mental states in general is not very well defined. My interpretation of hedonism is seeking pleasure for pleasures sake. Pleasure is the end goal and the more that is experienced the better! Living in the moment is a stated goal of many contemplative d…

>Pleasure is the end goal and the more that is experienced the better!

Yes.

>as your yearnings and desires increase for more and more pleasure

Why is this an inevitability? I've lived in my current condo for 2 years and I still enjoy the simple pleasure of standing on the balcony that I own.

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