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Elon’s Out

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Re: Elon’s Out

#471

Post by Red_Leaves_Flyy »

sircastor wrote: post #416
KerrAvon wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this court doesn't have real power against clever C-suite types, maybe it's better that we find that out. In terms of compensation and personal money management, Musk isn't doing anything that other wealthy execs haven't done. (For example, Steve Jobs famously took a $1.00 per year salary for a long time.) Either there's an enforcement mechanism that works or there isn't.

Steve Jobs also famously illegally parked in disabled parking spots and paid the fine because he didn’t care. And he famously leased a new car every 6 months because he didn’t want to put license plates on his car. And tangential to that kind of behavior, Apple recently was paying a weekly 5 million Euro fine in the Netherlands rather than comply with an order from regulators.

Jail. The consequence needed here is jail. Put these clowns in jail with junkies and wife beaters and gang bangers. While we’re at it, treat them the same as their local pd treats the most vulnerable in their community. They deserve no better than the most vulnerable and marginalized.

Re: Elon’s Out

#472

Post by codesections »

XorNot wrote: post #445
codesections wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is such an absurd thing [for Matt Levine, a former 3rd Circuit clerk, Yale Law grad, and Wachtell M&A attorney] to say it's hard to find a way to charitably respond. If your interpretation of the post suggests that a highly qualified attorney is getting the basics of US law absurdly incorrect, you might want to reconsider whether you're understanding the intended meaning. (Here, Levine is making a specific cla…

This is an appeal to authority that is not valid: there are plainly a lot of lawyers out there who's legal opinion leaves a lot of daylight against the actual law. Rudy Giuliani took a long time to get disbarred.

> This is an appeal to authority that is not valid

I'm open to that criticism; I'm typically pretty skeptical of appeals to authority myself.

But to be clear: the appeal to authority I'm making isn't "legal opinion of a lawyer" (I agree that's very weak) but rather "opinion on corporate law by a Wachtell attorney who practiced corporate law" (Wachtell is probably the best corporate law firm in the world, and clearly in the top handful)

Re: Elon’s Out

#473

Post by scaramanga »

abirch wrote: post #287
almost_usual wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don’t invest in a company ran by a lunatic?

Twitter employees are watching the board force a lunatic to buy their company.

But tech workers don't need unions, right. Must be fun for twitter employees to completely powerless spectators with no seat at the negotiating table while the lunatic has a chance at becoming their new King and turning their labour in to an election-swinging doomsday machine at the end of human civilisation.

But hey, we've got beanbags and a playstation.

Re: Elon’s Out

#474

Post by thombat »

georgia_peach wrote: post #385
VerminOctopus1 wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You saying that Twitter’s SEC filings over the last several years included knowingly falsified information?

> The social media company, Twitter, has admitted to overstating the figure of the platform’s users by 1.9 million in the last three years. The company disclosed this in its Q1 2022 financial report released today. The revelation comes days after the board of the company accepted a $44 billion offer by Elon Musk to take over Twitter. > Twitter says an “error” introduced in Q1 2019, resulted in the overstatement of it…

From https://www.statista.com/statistics/970920/monetizable-daily... that figure of 1.9M is rather less than 2% of their MDAU figure, and less than the MDAU growth in almost any quarter. So more of a correction than a revolution.

Re: Elon’s Out

#475

Post by sklargh »

roenxi wrote: post #459
hotpotamus wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anytime the idea of a wealth tax is brought up, I see commenters coming out of the woodwork to say that it would be impossible to actually collect it from the wealthy. Though I will note that it seems like we are able to collect yachts and planes from Russian oligarchs now, so perhaps our techniques have advanced in the last few months.

The tax & plane seizures are 1. A surprising departure from the rules and norms - I assume probably illegal. 2. Part of a campaign designed to ruin Russia. You might have misunderstood the argument the anti-taxers (pro-property?) people are bringing up. There isn't a physical problem with taking wealth away from people, that part is very easy to execute. The problem is the 2nd order effects where it will turn into an…

We have this set of tools already. It’s called civil asset forfeiture and it’s a travesty.

Re: Elon’s Out

#476

Post by throwaway09223 »

Victerius wrote: post #468
throwaway09223 wrote: post #457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They wouldn't. Here's how it works: 1) The court would issue a judgement for Twitter, against Musk, for $44b. 2) Musk would either voluntarily pay it by selling his own assets, or he would refuse. If he refuses, then: 3) Twitter would go about seizing and selling Musk's assets, until they have raised funds to cover the $44b judgement. Twitter could levy whatever brokerage or account Musk uses to hold his shares. Some…

Thanks. Further questions: (1) Would it be legal for him to own the brokerage? (2) What if he moves all of his stock in offshore accounts?

1) Sure, but this wouldn't give him any protection. On the contrary, there would be a ton of extra liability and exposure if he were to refuse to process a levy.

Shares don't need to be held in a brokerage. There's always a process to identify and seize the property in question.

2) There's no such thing. TSLA is a US public company, traded on US exchanges. It's simply not possible for shares of the company to exist outside of US jurisdiction.

Re: Elon’s Out

#477

Post by phendrenad2 »

roca wrote: post #166
georgeburdell wrote: post #132

Musk holds a key piece of America’s future in space in SpaceX. I wonder if it’s only a matter of time before he starts dangling that to get what he wants in cases like this. I still am generally favorable toward Elon, but I think we’re seeing him transform into a villain

The "cave diver paedophile" incident made it abundantly clear to everyone willing to see that whatever else he may be, Musk is a malicious clown. It was always only a matter of time before that had greater consequences.

Everyone has said something they don't mean out of spite. Politicians and billionaires are held to a higher standard by their fans/haters, but I really think they shouldn't be.

Re: Elon’s Out

#478

Post by Red_Leaves_Flyy »

HWR_14 wrote: post #189
haliskerbas wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There’s a genuine danger that the result of this case will be “some people are too powerful to be regulated by the US system, and this is now obvious”. This should have been obvious by now. Cash rules everything around me.

> Cash rules everything around me. Serious question: Are you in the US? Any Western European country? There's a tendency for people in corrupt areas to assume the whole world works like that.

I’m in a white and homogenous area of the us. Cash does indeed rule every thing around me. There’s not a problem that can’t be solved with cash. Kill a few kids drunk driving or shooting recklessly? Cash in the right pockets and the evidence will be inadmissible and the case goes kaput. Want some more privacy? Your neighbors might suddenly find the neighborhood inhospitable with cash in the right hands. Want your kid to start for a team or graduate? There’s palms out. Very few people are principled enough in this economy to refuse a bribe. If you want to remain principled I suggest you think through your price before you’re asked if $1,000, some blow, and a cheap lap dance is enough and you end doing more for free when you’re extorted.

There’s a tendency for sheltered and privileged people to be aloof to the corruption all around them.

Re: Elon’s Out

#479

Post by b112 »

phrz wrote: post #454
b112 wrote: post #439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's criminal, not civil court. Civil court works on fiscal, property to mitigate damage. If he is found to breach contract, a court could order seizure of assets (cash or property). There could be punitive damages assessed too, if his actions are seen as purposefully malign.

Are you under the impression that judges presiding over civil cases cannot exercise their inherent power (in some jurisdictions) to jail those in (severe) contempt of court?

To both replies, I agree contempt of court is a thing. I misspoke.

What I mean is, the remedy for non-compliance with contracts, is fiscal, seizure, penalties of thus nature.

The goal of civil court is not the state punishing, but instead, laying out compensation, for damages, to the harmed.

There is no contempt of court for not paying these damages.

Re: Elon’s Out

#480

Post by dang »

mlindner wrote: post #356
dang wrote: post #128

Recent and related: Notice of termination of Twitter merger agreement - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32027341 - July 2022 (1361 comments)

Not just related, this thread should be merged with that one. There is nothing new in this opinion piece article.

That's probably true, but the other thread has over 1300 comments, so a merge would be a monster.
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