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EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

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Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#471

Post by rekoil »

jorvi wrote: post #413
cycomanic wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can we stop pretending that Apple has the users best interest in mind? They just want to be the gatekeeper for lucrative applications/functions so they can charge for it. That they somehow convinced apple users that it's somehow in their interest just shows how good their marketing is.

A big case in point is Apple Music. Apple turning the Music Player app in Apple Music allowed them to catch a huge part of the market that had never interacted with music streaming before. Extremely anti-competitive. IMO when they did that they should have immediately been forced by the EU to instead show a pop-up that also gave the option for Spotify, Deezer, Tidal etc.

And immediately cancel any revenue they take from competitors.

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#472

Post by ocdtrekkie »

makeitdouble wrote: post #133
_the_inflator wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never underestimate the creative genius of Apple. They will come up with new solutions to keep their walled garden. "Allow users to install apps from third-party app stores and sideload directly from the internet" I bet this is going to be a horrible user experience. "Are you really sure?", "Apple takes no responsibility not warranty" whatsoever. What sound usually easy on paper...

They backed out from these tricks in the Netherland standoff. As you guessed, it started with horrible wording, and has now became something way saner (albeit they kept their fees requirements)

They didn't back out on these: They were forced to give them up in the Netherlands. And then, when South Korea passed a similar law... Apple has announced the same tricks the Netherlands refused to accept as their plan to comply with the South Korean law.

You can bet they'll start playing the same games with the EU once this goes into effect. Regulating big tech requires not just passing the law, but a heavy handed enforcement that doesn't put up with delays and antics.

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#473

Post by vorpalhex »

laserlight wrote: post #466
vorpalhex wrote: post #431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The market, through competition.

Thanks for the clarification, because your previous comment seemed to contradict.

Oh, is there a competitor to the app store that will let me get apps for my iOS devices?

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#474

Post by tsimionescu »

kmeisthax wrote: post #170
VyseofArcadia wrote: post #85

I really hope Sony and Nintendo are classified as gatekeepers as well because this > Allow users to install apps from third-party app stores and sideload directly from the internet. would be huge for Playstation and Switch owners.

So far everyone complaining about app lockouts have been laser-focused on phones, because they're general-purpose and thus easier to legally justify sideloading on. Nobody wants to talk about game consoles - to open them up would almost certainly require revisiting DMCA 1201[0] and removing the prohibition on circumvention tools. The US Copyright Office wouldn't entertain extending the current "mobile devices"[1] jai…

> to open them up would almost certainly require revisiting DMCA 1201[0] and removing the prohibition on circumvention tools

This is a non-sequitur. If there were a new law that requires Sony and Nintendo to offer side-loading on their platforms, they would have every right to do so, as they own the copyright of those platforms. The DMCA protects copyright holders from the actions of others, it puts no limits on their own actions. If Sony wanted to break into your PS3, you wouldn't have any standing under the DMCA to sue them about it (of course, there are other laws that protect your data, your past contracts etc).

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#475

Post by bzxcvbn »

kmlx wrote: post #15
tchocky wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think so. The EU market is pretty huge and financially strong. Maybe they will only allow sideloading and payment freedom for the EU with special iOS builds.

depends on the company really. some might think a bit more about offering their products to eu countries considering (some of) these rules. which imo are quite serious, and some even ridiculous.

That's pretty much the point of the regulation. If you're okay with being preyed upon by billion-dollar companies, stay in the US. If you'd like to be protected as a customer, come to the EU.

Besides, the DMA has specific exemptions for small companies. Once a company reaches the "gatekeeper" level, they will have had all the necessary time to figure out how to comply with the law.

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#476

Post by threeseed »

depressedpanda wrote: post #313
reaperducer wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple locks out so many useful kinds of software For someone who doesn't have a personal Android phone, what useful software is out there that I can get on an iPhone? Related: What mass-market software is out there that isn't available on the iPhone? I don't mean *nix tools and niche game emulators. Things that would make many people actually care about alt stores?

> For someone who doesn't have a personal Android phone, what useful software is out there that I can get on an iPhone? A web browser that isn't a hamstrung reskin of Safari, and that can run uBlock Origin.

You do understand that uBlock Origin has private, profit-generating relationships with advertisers.

And you want them to have full access to every URL that you visit ?

Rather than use AdGuard or any other ad-blocker that can't go and sell your data to third parties for money.

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#477

Post by simion314 »

ttul wrote: post #314
mattnewton wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> While I love the idea of being able to finally install SNES emulators and the like, many malicious actors will now pray on unsuspecting iOS users to install spyware, malware, and other crap via third-party app stores. Not everyone is as sophisticated as the typical Hacker News reader; younger and more naive users will be taken in as victims of various types of fraud. Think of the naive users argument has never made…

Let me sketch a scenario for you. Your grandmother receives an email from a trustworthy-sounding man who asks her to follow these easy steps to get a free app. Granny taps "Allow third-party app stores" and then installs whatever garbage the fraudster is hoping she will install. Multiply this by tens of thousands of vulnerable users and you have the makings of a significant problem that will cost society a lot of mon…

Let me update your scenario, instead of the innocent granny installing an iOS app the evil dude asks her to just give her the security code she just revived from a bank, or she should open a link and login to her bank.

I think you need a Big Brother for your granny, Apple needs to make Safari granny proof and whitelist websites and they should also force user to provide a national ID before calling to an iOS device, think of all the grannies.

Imagine though an universe where Apple could hire some competent people that could create a genius popup that would explain granny that she should not enable that, and to enable that maybe she needs to use a code that is printed on the phone box.

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#478

Post by DavideNL »

martimarkov wrote: post #467
DavideNL wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apps will use near-field communication technology and other mechanisms to track us So, then do not allow any apps the NFC permission... problem solved. The point is, Apple should not be the one dictating what users can and can not use; Example: on macOS you can disable SIP. 99% of the people i know do not even know what SIP is, nor that this possibility exists. However, if we/Developers/researchers/etc. want it, th…

The main problem is that users can be tricked to do it. Used to happen to my parents all the time on Android. They'd install random apps and the website will "guide" them how to install this app by going to settings and enabling "untrusted developers". This is my issue with all these devs screaming at apple. Your customers chose a product for whatever reason. Don't like it? I don't care - respect their choices. It sp…

> "The main problem is that users can be tricked to do it."

That's because the GUI is badly implemented;

On macOS, your parents would never disable SIP (system integrity protection), because it's quite cumbersome to disable and there are enough warnings and hurdles.

This is already has been reality for years: it is simply not an issue.

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#479

Post by concinds »

jachee wrote: post #430
blfr wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think it's credible that the interoperability requirements are going to be used to smash end-to-end encrypted messaging Why and how? I already use Signal to handle the plain old, almost completely unencrypted text messages. It has no impact on security of Signal-to-Signal communication.

If Signal is forced to interoperate with e.g. WhatsApp, the end-to-end encryption of one or both will have to be compromised. If the integration is forced, then there’s no barrier for either app grabbing all the info from the other in plain-text.

> If Signal is forced to interoperate with e.g. WhatsApp, the end-to-end encryption of one or both will have to be compromised

Wrong https://matrix.org/blog/2022/03/25/interoperability-without-...

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#480

Post by mantas »

Tijdreiziger wrote: post #242
mantas wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait till must-have apps go for 3rd party stores and exploit that to no end. E.g. banking, transit, parking etc.

Can you point to examples where that has happened on Android (a comparable platform that has allowed sideloading since its inception)?

Android / Google App Store is much more lax, isn't it?
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