Live data from Hacker News

Tell HN: The loneliness of a pretty good developer

news.ycombinator.com

471–480 of 519 posts

Re: Tell HN: The loneliness of a pretty good developer

#471
post #16

I think you're an above average developer working at a below average company. This could be the root of all your problems. Nothing is more frustrating than working with peers you know aren't carrying their weight. Do you want to be an engineering leader? This is what you are, regardless of your official title at your company. Engineering leaders are judged by how much better they make everyone else. You may hear the…

The pivot I have been debating is to become a Lead Development Manager with the express purpose of enabling everyone else, removing obstacles, creating better processes etc. My problem is that I love code much more than talking to people all day. I have been mentoring Jr Devs for a while now in an official capacity which helps. I like the idea of "make systemic changes to help your peers become more effective". So th…

From where you're coming from, I think, your next steps would be thinking "who should work on this" vs. "I'll pick this up because I can do it quickly."

If you're not enabling your team to take over your job, you're doing it wrong. And by a comment I saw elsewhere, the tendency to control things is natural, but you should resist that - it's the only way you can scale.

If your organization doesn't have that kind of individual contributor leveling, that would be a good conversation to have. Or if your team isn't big enough, maybe its time to look for a new challenge.

There will be a learning curve and a mindset shift, but it's really the only way that you truly become a force multiplier.

Soon, your commits will go down, but your reviews will go up.

Later, your reviews will go down, but your strategy/design/planning docs/conversations will go up. Your job is designing for the 1-3yr future (or more but rare) and across the organization.

Re: Tell HN: The loneliness of a pretty good developer

#472

Hi, Shabang! Good on you for asking this question. If you are looking for a sign that you are not conceited, asking “am I too conceited?” is a great first signal that you are not. You ask how you can get feedback when you intimidate others with your success/output/influence. A very good question. 1. Be relentless in your admission of weakness. You see someone nodding at a half-formed idea as if it were genius “I’m so…

Thanks for the thoughtful post. It's full of good ideas.

> After onboarding someone to a new system, “what was the hardest part of this to wrap your head around, is there a way for us to make it easier?” Or, “genuine question, if I asked you to just clean up tech debt on this repository for a month, where would you start?” ESPECIALLY do this with newbies.

Is my favorite part. I tend to hold training sessions for various things, so I can use this idea frequently and it will help everyone involved.

Re: Tell HN: The loneliness of a pretty good developer

#473
post #163

As someone far younger than you, yet at times infinitely jaded, through what have >0% odds of being at least related circumstance: If you haven’t come across DFWs This is Water, I’d highly recommend you give it a sincere listen: https://youtu.be/PhhC_N6Bm_s What is your goal? Have to make hay while the sun shines, if you perform so we’ll see if you can find another opportunity to realize that gap you’re in? If that’s…

I watched the video this morning. Thanks, it gave me something to reflect on.

Re: Tell HN: The loneliness of a pretty good developer

#474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

+1. I had a similar crisis when I was a “big fish in a smallish company”, I wasn’t learning, I wasn’t being stretched and felt like I was going to get stuck in this eddy. Move to a bigger company, be challenged again.

Same with me. I was the most senior dev still writing code ~every day, and there was literally no place to grow. Moved to Google and learned a ton, now I'm one of a number of big fishes in my org, and I also feel like I can potentially move on more easily if I want to.

IMO people who describe themselves as big fish in a small pond come off as extremely arrogant

Re: Tell HN: The loneliness of a pretty good developer

#475
This is pretty typical in most organizations. There are roughly 2-3 people on a team that carry 80% of the workload in a given period. It's not out-of-the-ordinary.

Even average developers can become the "workhorse" in an organization.

The problem seems to be a dysfunctional organization. You should feel safe to take a vacation, to turn down the heat for a while and let others take over while you recharge your energy, etc.

If you start to feel like you can't control the amount of stress you feel in this position that's a big, red flag that you're heading down the road to burn out. It's never worth it. Even if you have to take a financial hit to get out you should seriously consider cutting your losses and run. If you can talk with your org leaders and let them know what you're going through and that you want to take some serious time off.

Then take some serious time off. Disconnect from work and do not respond to emails, messages, etc. Find a good therapist for you and start seeing them regularly. Etc.

Re: Tell HN: The loneliness of a pretty good developer

#477
post #466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're stuck in an hourly mindset. If you pay someone to build a house, and they complete the house, they're done. They get paid. Whether they build it in 1 day or 200 days, the price is the same. Getting paid for time is a trick that you need to surpass. Get paid for what you produce. That is the primary difference between businesses and individuals: the non-correlation of time and revenue for a business versus an i…

It's not just me that is stuck in an hourly mindset, it's every company offering developer jobs ever. In my contract it's not defined how much I have to get done, only how many hours I have to work per week. Time worked is tracked, work done not really.

yeah unless a company is run 'differently' (see https://twitter.com/tobi/status/1210242188870930433 for example) in terms of culture, no one is going to come out and say don't work for the full 7-8 hours a day.

Re: Tell HN: The loneliness of a pretty good developer

#478
post #320
post #21

“If you’re the smartest person in the room, you’re in the wrong room.” I know saying this is easier than doing it, but; seek upward movement until you no longer feel like you're the smartest person in the room. I would also add, although it's purely personal opinion, that seeking a solution to loneliness through work is a surefire way to feel more lonely. You say you're big on self-improvement, but are you only focus…

Then you finally meet the smartest person you've ever met and, statistically given the quality of the room and their excellence above and beyond it, ever will meet. And you realize that person spends their life handing out wisdom which consistently just falls on deaf ears. It's an empty journey with an unsatisfying end even if you make it to the top. The money's great, but if you are smart enough to be constantly wal…

Fully agree.

As an aside, you can be smartest in programming and even managing teams but you might still not be most sociable, strongest, most musical, richest, most charismatic, funniest, most attractive, person.

If the only measure you go by is IQ, you're childishly defining the game all other kids are supposed to play and then wonder why no one plays with you. That would definitely not be smart.

Re: Tell HN: The loneliness of a pretty good developer

#479
I can relate. I was 10x, that was a decade ago. Now approaching ~100x.

I've studied. I learned every language, I know too many app patterns, framework, protocols, blablabla.

I study the tricks of every role. I sense bugs before I even realize, its subconsciously unsettling. I feel like neo in the matrix.

I don't have answers for you other than I can relate.

Try to work on harder things and you will only keep getting better.

When you are the person who gets all the hard problems, you are forced to keep getting better, faster, and you take on and consume all the experience for the entire team.

Re: Tell HN: The loneliness of a pretty good developer

#480
post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've dealt with the stress by discreetly working less. I have debated this myself. Some other replies said the same thing. It would definitely help me in other parts of my life. How do you handle people messaging you over slack / teams and not responding for hours?

Precisely; and that's a big reason I would disagree with the OP and say that the method of "do in 2 hours what takes someone else 8 then take the day off" is actually a bad strategy for managing stress. First; you're gonna become an SME on something. SMEs get Pings. If you're in your "not work" time at 3pm, playing Valorant or whatever, and get a ping; that's going to be annoying. That annoyance isn't justified; its…

> Precisely; and that's a big reason I would disagree with the OP and say that the method of "do in 2 hours what takes someone else 8 then take the day off" is actually a bad strategy for managing stress.

I can see why you would think this, but I have made it work for me. If I put in enough work in two hours to be slightly ahead of colleagues who need the full eight hour day, I don't regard the other six hours as purely "me time". I regard it as standby/on call time. If a ping comes between 0900 and 1700, I'm there to answer it. That's actually part of the strategy. As long as I'm hitting my deadlines, doing a little better than the other guys, putting cover sheets on my TPS reports, and being responsive during working hours none of my eight different bosses know anything's amiss. They get what they want, and I get more time to exercise, read, play my violin, chat with my wife, tinker, etc.

I don't make anybody wait more than 15 minutes unless the only thing they say in chat is "hello"[0], because they're wasting their time and mine.

I don't mentally clock out at 1100 or 1200 and spend the rest of the day playing video games and resenting every ping. I sure as hell don't start drinking at 2pm. Hell, I don't even keep booze in the house; I only drink if I'm at somebody else's house and they offer me a drink. (I'll have one drink for politeness' sake, but that's it.)

> Maybe its guilt, I don't know. But if you're only on-on for two hours, then kinda-on for... how long? All day?

I feel no guilt whatsoever. I've rationalized the guilt away. If getting paid a salary means I get paid the same whether the work takes 40 hours a week or 80, then it ought to mean I get paid the same whether the work takes 10 hours a week or 40 because I think getting paid a salary rather than an hourly wage should imply that I'm being paid for results, not time spent.

The problem, at least in my situation, is that the company has me on a salary but bills their clients by the hour. This obliges them to track "utilization", so being your kind of honest and outright clocking out when I've finished a reasonable amount of work for the day would foul up my metrics. So I've unilaterally imposed a compromise that works for me: I get my work done in the morning, and spend the rest of the workday "on call" and responsive if something comes up. I make a point of participating in company tech/culture groups so that people see I'm not just focused entirely on client work.

I play the game, but I play it my way because playing it their way is playing to lose.

Remember: boss makes a dollar, you make a dime. That's why you shit on the company's time. I might not be a card-carrying IWW[1] member, but I come from a long line of Wobblies.

[0]: https://www.nohello.com/

[1]: https://www.iww.org/

Post reply on HN