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Is everything falling apart?

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Re: Is everything falling apart?

#471

Post by newbamboo »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #455
boh wrote: post #243

Things collapsing has been a predominant sentiment in every modern generation. It's unprecedented because of our collective amnesia, that regards the familiar as a stable starting point rather than a random moment in a volatile reality. Journalism was a tawdry, un-respectable business since its conception, but experienced a brief period of valor around the mid-twentieth century when industry concentration, Cold War e…

I think there is a real danger in just arguing basically "things have always been a shit show, empires collapse, pandemics rage, etc. etc." for a couple reasons: 1. While true, lets not ignore the fact that things get really, really, really bad during those periods where empires do collapse, or environmental damage causes ecosystem collapse, etc. etc. I mean, yes, you could argue "Hey, the Black Death killed a 3rd of…

Why not talk about nuclear war? It’s one of several elephants in the room. The full collapse of a nuclear super power is unprecedented. Who gets the weapons?

Re: Is everything falling apart?

#472

Post by reciprocity »

bradlys wrote: post #442
SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a lot more political polarization, no doubt, but I'm actually not sure it's true that there's more social division. A few decades ago, basic questions like "is it OK for different races to get married" and "should women participate fully in society" remained unresolved, with a ton of people wielding substantial power sitting on the "no" side. (The Handmaid's Tale wasn't meant to be some crazy impossible premi…

I’d read Robert Putnam’s book Bowling Alone or The Upswing. (Or just watch him talk about it on YouTube) Social division is definitely higher than it’s ever been in decades. Racism and sexism is less prevalent but social division is actually higher than ever.

Thanks for the recommendation.

Re: Is everything falling apart?

#473

Post by john_moscow »

TimPC wrote: post #379
john_moscow wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Economy and politics always go together. Optimizing the economy for the retirements funds (creating favorable conditions for existing big companies) has eliminated the paths to prosperity for the new generations (you cannot run your own shop to outcompete Loblaws or Walmart, and a cashier job there will never afford you anything more than bare survival). This is discouraging people from starting families and having k…

Most economic discussions are inherently political but it's not the case that most political discussions are inherently economical. I argued that we are avoiding dealing with our economic challenges and are focusing on non-economic political problems.

>I argued that we are avoiding dealing with our economic challenges and are focusing on non-economic political problems.

Well, yeah, since all major media companies and social networks are owned by the entities directly benefiting from the "economic challenges" of the former middle class.

Re: Is everything falling apart?

#474

Post by tejohnso »

fullshark wrote: post #438
ravenstine wrote: post #111

Everything is not falling apart, though certain institutions may be falling apart. In America, there's definitely been a breakdown of belief in its own institutions. Far more people are skeptical of things like journalism and Silicon Valley; it really wasn't that long ago that the former was constantly salivating over the latter, but now it's more of an openly vulture-carrion relationship because that caters to publi…

Ultimately I think it's gonna be a good thing, as a lot of public naivety re: its institutions is destroyed and things will be rebuilt on a newly defined "social contract." The transition may take generations or a new threat comparable to global warfare for it to happen though.

I think the climate emergency[1] compares and is only going to get worse. Also, it is already partially responsible for warfare[2] (though not global, yet).

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_emergency_declarationl

[2]: https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/150302-sy...

Re: Is everything falling apart?

#476

Post by confidantlake »

Shaddox wrote: post #46

I hope I am not being too inflammatory by saying this but it's ... quite amusing how sheltered Americans are in thinking that a little political tension is a danger to their own country. Bosnia was about to be destroyed and more recently, attempted to be divided by neighbors and they're still fine. Look at anywhere that's not Americas or Western Europe.

I get your point, but a lot of Bosnians died in that conflict. I have travelled there, and have talked with a lot of Bosnians. A lot of them are still pretty shook about the past. A lady I talked to had a sniper shoot each stair below her as she walked up a flight of stairs to mess with her. Stuff like that sticks with you.

Most people are still alive and life goes on but it is not a road you want to go down if you can avoid it.

Re: Is everything falling apart?

#477

Post by 11101010001100 »

TimPC wrote: post #444
11101010001100 wrote: post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you compared your parents return of their down payment if they had invested for the same duration in the stock market? I've seen a few cases where it all comes out in the wash...

It might come out in the wash if you ignore the fact that you have to live somewhere. Property taxes and upkeep on a house tend to work out cheaper than skyrocketing rents over the long run. Home upgrades return value on the property. Having freedom to develop the place you live into something you like is incredibly valuable as well.

I agree there value in the freedom. My point is simply on paper, housing is as expensive as every other asset (well, maybe not art). Of course, the real question is if housing should even be considered an asset in the first place.

Re: Is everything falling apart?

#478

Post by buscoquadnary »

newbamboo wrote: post #471
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there is a real danger in just arguing basically "things have always been a shit show, empires collapse, pandemics rage, etc. etc." for a couple reasons: 1. While true, lets not ignore the fact that things get really, really, really bad during those periods where empires do collapse, or environmental damage causes ecosystem collapse, etc. etc. I mean, yes, you could argue "Hey, the Black Death killed a 3rd of…

Why not talk about nuclear war? It’s one of several elephants in the room. The full collapse of a nuclear super power is unprecedented. Who gets the weapons?

Well the USSR isn't around anymore and they had quite a few nukes so....

Re: Is everything falling apart?

#479

Post by [deleted] »

bsenftner wrote: post #318
b112 wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the 60s was far, far, far more disillusioned than this.

And the baby boomers who created the upset of the 60's are now in charge, and their disillusioned leadership is pushing these divisions ever wider. They are the institutions and they do not trust themselves, as is clear via the leadership stalemate and both parties destroying their best hopes in favor of the crumbling and ever more distant wealthy status quo.

[deleted]

Re: Is everything falling apart?

#480

Post by mikkergp »

fallingknife wrote: post #242
krapp wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I’m skeptical that he can fundamentally change the incentives that make social media amplify extremist views over moderate views. I'm skeptical that someone who unironically uses the phrase "woke mindvirus" has any such intent. There's a reason right-wing accounts are flooding the platform now and everyone else is running for the hills, and it isn't because Elon makes both sides equally welcome or unwelcome. He's cl…

Why is it that liberals run from a platform full of conservatives, but conservatives don't run from a platform full of liberals?

I will grant you it must be difficult trying to voice your opinion as a conservative in a liberal space, but there are countless examples of conservative safe spaces and running away from those platforms, or they just never join them in the first place.
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