471–480 of 1001 posts
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The healthcare system in the US clearly has nothing to do with free markets considering how unbelievably opaque and regulated everything is.
Ahem. Regulatory capture would like a word.
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My wife (ER/Trauma RN) feels the same way. They will need to double the pay of non-travel nurses to get through this.
The existence of travel nurses should really be indicative of a problem.
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I have no doubt that MDs are leaving as well - but, at least from my perspective, in any large healthcare system, there is a drastic difference between the way middle management treats MDs and the way they treat everyone else. The latter is completely expendable, whereas the MDs do have a fair amount of negotiating leverage around their working conditions.
Oh, don't get me wrong. The way nurses are treated is horrible. I wasn't arguing that and I hope it didn't come across that way.
I'm just sharing what I've seen - middle management treats MDs drastically different than NPs and PAs, even in states where the latter have almost the same scope of practice.
This is not to say that MDs don't have their own reasons to be mad at the system - insurance, changes in patient attitudes, etc.
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Agree with all of this, and just to add one thing: liability. Look at the RaDonda Vaught case or the Michelle Heughins case; terrifying to be looking at jail time for a med error. Many nurses are watching these cases more closely and deciding that since staffing isn't getting any better and they won't be protected, it's not worth the risk.
That case goes far beyond med error and I don't understand why people keep bringing it up as an example. She pulled the wrong med, and then injected it and walked out of the room rather than observing for effects. Also the med she pulled had warnings on all sides of the bottle and on the top saying very clearly that it's fatal to administer without ventilation. This went beyond a mistake to negligence.
Edit: I should say that doesn’t mean I think it makes any sense the hospital isn’t liable and jail time for the nurse seems odd
Second hand impression from a doctor friend.
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The healthcare system in the US clearly has nothing to do with free markets considering how unbelievably opaque and regulated everything is.
There's no such thing as a "free market" for healthcare. The ability for consumers to exit a market is one of the prerequisites for the invisible hand effect. You can't exit the healthcare market.
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> This one is big for product designers. You're right that there are definitely opportunities for improvement here. As a Product person that has worked in EMR/Healthcare IT systems, I can tell you the biggest challenge is most of the decisions are driven by legally-required compliance. In many cases, you literally cannot make it better because the brokenness is /by design/ to comply with the law. Nearly across the bo…
HITRUST certification is the most demoralizing thing I've done in my life. You need a policy, a procedure and evidence of things like this: Shared system resources (e.g., registers, main memory, secondary storage) are released back to the system, protected from disclosure to other systems/applications/users, and users cannot intentionally or unintentionally access information remnants.
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The one I think you are missing is that nurses are and have been overworked for a WHILE now. (that's what I get from /r/nursing) Hospitals have made sure they hire JUST ENOUGH nurses to cover shifts and no more. With covid hitting, this blew out the number of nurses needed resulting in a lot of "I know you've already worked 60 hours, but can you do another 20? we are short!". Rather than hiring permanent people or up…
From a Canadian stand point you American nurses are already highly paid. My brother works in the US and was recently thinking of coming back to work closer to where he grew up. The best deal he could get here was $20usd less then what he makes there. So on top of making $20 more then a nurse here he is also making it in USD. He is making huge amounts of cash as a nurse down there. How much more do nurses need?
What you need to realize is that nursing salaries in the US are NOT uniform. From what I've seen in past discussions about it is they range anywhere from $20/hr -> $100k/year. The $100k/year are usually achieved only in cities and generally only by travel nurses.
The majority of nurses, that I've seen, are clocking in at 50->60k yearly salary.
Sort of like saying "Oh, that google dev makes $300k a year. How much more do devs in the US need?"
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The one I think you are missing is that nurses are and have been overworked for a WHILE now. (that's what I get from /r/nursing) Hospitals have made sure they hire JUST ENOUGH nurses to cover shifts and no more. With covid hitting, this blew out the number of nurses needed resulting in a lot of "I know you've already worked 60 hours, but can you do another 20? we are short!". Rather than hiring permanent people or up…
From a Canadian stand point you American nurses are already highly paid. My brother works in the US and was recently thinking of coming back to work closer to where he grew up. The best deal he could get here was $20usd less then what he makes there. So on top of making $20 more then a nurse here he is also making it in USD. He is making huge amounts of cash as a nurse down there. How much more do nurses need?