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US sentences crypto expert to 5 years after North Korea blockchain presentation

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Re: US sentences crypto expert to 5 years after North Korea blockchain presentation

#471

Post by hsbauauvhabzb »

novok wrote: post #463
hsbauauvhabzb wrote: post #443

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I partially agree but there was clear intent in theory but in practice the action was deeply unethical. Wouldn’t you go to jail if you taught someone how to plan a murder, with the knowledge they clearly planned on using that information?

He was teaching them how to manipulate distributed database entries that they have the explicit permission to use via their own private keys. If that is anywhere near equivalent to murder then I have a bridge to sell you. Next up teaching north korea how to farm better and how to dodge sanctions importing fertilizer is bad, because then their people wont starve as much and therefore can do more evil in the world via…

Helping the North Korean government do anything is assisting a government happy to let their populous die while resisting sanctions.

I don’t think I compared it to murder from an immediate seriousness perspective, but I’m sure the impact of Bitcoin on NK would cost more than one life’s worth of quality of life (improving the bottom line, helping the country resist sanctions for longer, etc).

Re: US sentences crypto expert to 5 years after North Korea blockchain presentation

#472

Post by otterley »

wolverine876 wrote: post #189
toomuchtodo wrote: post #123

Mods: Better link: https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/united-states-citizen-p... Better title: "United States Citizen Pleads Guilty To Conspiring To Assist North Korea In Evading Sanctions"

Business Insider isn't a great source, but I don't like primary sources: They will be very biased in their own interest. A good secondary source can provide context, information from sources that disagree or have other perspectives or concerns, etc. That's one reason Wikipedia requires secondary sources.

HN guidelines require primary sources.

People can post those alternate views and links to supporting articles in the comments.

Re: US sentences crypto expert to 5 years after North Korea blockchain presentation

#473

Post by cormacrelf »

mzs wrote: post #184
toomuchtodo wrote: post #123

Mods: Better link: https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/united-states-citizen-p... Better title: "United States Citizen Pleads Guilty To Conspiring To Assist North Korea In Evading Sanctions"

or this for the sentencing itself: https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/us-citizen-who-conspired-assi...

Yes, the pleading is from September last year.

Re: US sentences crypto expert to 5 years after North Korea blockchain presentation

#474

Post by tptacek »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #462
tptacek wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We should not continue the Cuba embargo. It serves no public policy purpose. We should continue and enhance sanctions on North Korea, which actively works to destabilize the rest of the world, unlike Cuba. Iran is a trickier case, but on balance the world would be better off with more normalized relations with Iran, and its trajectory forward after normalization would very likely be better than it is with sanctions.…

>You can disagree with any or all of this, I really appreciate you staking concrete positions on the countries. I mostly agree, but am on the fence about north Korea. >You can disagree with any or all of this, but the underlying point is: we are within our rights to coordinate sanctions on any country for a diversity of reasons. I think this is where we differ. Modern sanctions means we take everything that the oppos…

If there was a real system of international law, I'd have more sympathy for this position. But there isn't.

Sanctions always involve balancing interests, and it's worth calling out that they have costs even when we believe we're right. But the balance of interests for all of humanity strongly favors sanctioning the DPRK.

Re: US sentences crypto expert to 5 years after North Korea blockchain presentation

#475

Post by otterley »

madacol wrote: post #429
m3kw9 wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“ I don’t see how this benefits society in any way.” The law breaks down when you start giving exceptions to the law arbitrarily

If it's not arbitrary, then why stop there? Why not imprison every cryptocurrency developer?, they are all enabling a new way to avoid sanctions, some much better than others Where do you draw the line so that it's not arbitrary?

Our entire legal system is built on the exercise of line drawing. Where those lines are drawn is the result of debate and compromise. It's never perfect, but it's better than not having any lines at all.

Re: US sentences crypto expert to 5 years after North Korea blockchain presentation

#476

Post by otterley »

unnouinceput wrote: post #75
chatmasta wrote: post #48

I met Virgil at an academic workshop back in 2014. We went out in Amsterdam. He was a weird guy, to say the least (he’d probably be the first to agree). He was generally quite affable and obviously highly intelligent. He’s an idiot for this fiasco. But it’s also sad to see him in jail; I don’t see how this benefits society in any way. Five years in prison seems like a disproportionate punishment for an arguably victi…

This is about sending a message, especially to brilliant minds. No prosecution was involved when Rodman was visiting NK and definitely helped NK with having a highly visible star being personal friend with Kim, but hey Rodman is not a brainiac.

Dennis Rodman didn't break the law by the mere act of visiting North Korea and being friendly with Kim. As far as I can tell, the only time he may have acted questionably was a suspicion of bringing in some luxury goods (https://www.si.com/si-wire/2014/01/24/dennis-rodman-sanction...), but it doesn't seem like that case was pursued.

Re: US sentences crypto expert to 5 years after North Korea blockchain presentation

#477

Post by cormacrelf »

wolverine876 wrote: post #189
toomuchtodo wrote: post #123

Mods: Better link: https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/united-states-citizen-p... Better title: "United States Citizen Pleads Guilty To Conspiring To Assist North Korea In Evading Sanctions"

Business Insider isn't a great source, but I don't like primary sources: They will be very biased in their own interest. A good secondary source can provide context, information from sources that disagree or have other perspectives or concerns, etc. That's one reason Wikipedia requires secondary sources.

This is like... the weirdest post to bring that up on. DoJ announcements are some of the driest, most precisely worded press releases from any organisation on the planet. You could not hope for a better primary source.

When you read "co-conspirators", did you think oh, DoJ is biased, they're using heavily charged terms to make us feel a certain way? They aren't! He was charged with a conspiracy offence. That's what the people he conspired with are called.

Re: US sentences crypto expert to 5 years after North Korea blockchain presentation

#478

Post by otterley »

thomastjeffery wrote: post #330
sofixa wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but his work was exploring how digital systems can help bring peace to the world Surely nobody is that naive? Wars and sanctions aren't a technical problem that can be "solved" with a "digital system".

So if they are, they should be imprisoned? Maybe you haven't met someone with high-functioning autism. Being naive is essentially a symptom.

Autistic people have to obey the law just like anyone else does. As a community, we should do all we can to help dissuade or prevent them from doing things that would be illegal, much like we hold a child's hand when we cross the street to keep them from running into traffic and being hit by a car.

Re: US sentences crypto expert to 5 years after North Korea blockchain presentation

#479

Post by olalonde »

mywittyname wrote: post #259
bell-cot wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How far down the "flew 8,000 miles to get there, climbed over the barbed wire fence, licked both his thumbs, and pressed them against the shiny parts labeled 'DANGER! 25,000 VOLTS!'..." rabbit-hole-of-stupid should one have to go, before it's 100% okay for me to stop caring whether or not his sentence was just?

Five years seems pretty mild when you consider the chief purpose of sanctions is to provide an alternative to war as a means of settling disputes. And this man is willfully undermining the ability of his country to levy sanctions. Surely actively undermining the security of ones country is a serious offense.

> Surely actively undermining the security of ones country is a serious offense.

The information he shared in North Korea is widely available online. Perhaps unethical but I wouldn't qualify it as a serious offense.

Re: US sentences crypto expert to 5 years after North Korea blockchain presentation

#480

Post by otterley »

root_axis wrote: post #347
kayamon wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The coin is the proof that the energy was used. You're effectively trading how much you value energy.

No, that's incorrect. The price of the bitcoin has no relationship to the amount of energy burned mining it; if this were true then Satoshi's wallet would be worthless.

That's not completely true. As soon as it costs more to mine a Bitcoin than the value of a Bitcoin is worth, nobody's going to mine it anymore. Why would anyone take a loss on that?
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