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The next Google

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Re: The next Google

#471

Post by usrbinbash »

mostlysimilar wrote: post #74
Barrin92 wrote: post #45

I think 'more customization' which is a theme with a lot of these alternatives is a fundamental dead end. I don't know where this persistent myth comes from that people love choice and tinkering, because they clearly don't. There's a huge cost associated with having to make choices, and one feature of successful modern apps is that they're frictionless. That's why TikTok is so successful. There's no login, no user ch…

> a simple box where you put a question in and it gives you answers Google is very good at this, but this is exactly what I _don't_ want in the "Next Google". I want a _search engine_ for the web, not an answers engine that tries to know what I want better than I do. Search the web. Give me links to websites. This seems obvious to me, but everyone is trying to be like Google. I'm convinced the death of the web and in…

> this is exactly what I _don't_ want in the "Next Google".

You don't want that, I don't want that, and I am sure many people here on HN and similar gathering places for powerusers agree with us.

But "the next google" doesn't have to replace google for us, it would have to replace google for the average consumer (AC). And the AC likes the "simple box". The AC doesn't want to fiddle with customization options. The AC is used to walled gardens, advertising, "Apps" that are just wrappers around webpages.

So any "next google" will have to compete exactly at the "simple box" game to get the attention of the masses.

Re: The next Google

#472

Post by bluebit »

friendzis wrote: post #469
koonsolo wrote: post #466

I have a solution for the google problem, but don't have time to pursue this myself. So anyone interested, steal my idea! (Or bash it in the replies, it's HN after all :D) Instead of pagerank we need peoplerank. Let's say we build a new elgooG search engine that you can customize by indicating which people you trust. For example I say to trust Paul Graham about the topics entrepreneur and startup. Then, authors like…

This algorithm would have an extremely bad discoverability an would be extremely susceptible to platformization. How would you find Melcher writing about car engine maintenance on Bent Piston forum when you yourself rank KingsEgg on Vroom forums as the authority on engine maintenance? Which article do rank higher: one by Melcher that is highly ranked by large number of "random" individuals or the one recommended by K…

And boom, we're back to the original problem Google had - how to initially seed authority sites.

Re: The next Google

#473

Post by kirso »

Barrin92 wrote: post #45

I think 'more customization' which is a theme with a lot of these alternatives is a fundamental dead end. I don't know where this persistent myth comes from that people love choice and tinkering, because they clearly don't. There's a huge cost associated with having to make choices, and one feature of successful modern apps is that they're frictionless. That's why TikTok is so successful. There's no login, no user ch…

Well, today I literally use google to search opinions. However these opinions are usually fake or are serving affiliate links to the searches are:

site:reddit.com {search_query} site:twitter.com {search_query}

I hope to have this as default at some point because some of the indexed results by default are just terrible.

You are so on point with being opinionated though...

Re: The next Google

#474

Post by inferense »

I disagree. If google served me with what I search for within the top 5 results in every kind of context, I'd be willing to pay for it $30 / month, problem solved.

No one needs filters, backround colors and all that useless fluff - that doesn't really hit the nail on the head. I just want to get a useful information quickly. Google is arguably unbeatable when it comes to dev related queries, but a complete trash with pretty much anything else. Now, the problem is with all of these appalling websites filled with ads, pop ups, hidden agendas of selling me something etc. That's on google because their business model depends on serving these results.

A new kind of search engine does not run on ad revenue but on value add for the user in exchange for their subscription fee.

Re: The next Google

#475

Post by Gareth321 »

Barrin92 wrote: post #45

I think 'more customization' which is a theme with a lot of these alternatives is a fundamental dead end. I don't know where this persistent myth comes from that people love choice and tinkering, because they clearly don't. There's a huge cost associated with having to make choices, and one feature of successful modern apps is that they're frictionless. That's why TikTok is so successful. There's no login, no user ch…

>I think 'more customization' which is a theme with a lot of these alternatives is a fundamental dead end. I don't know where this persistent myth comes from that people love choice and tinkering, because they clearly don't.

I agree, BUT I would like to share my experience moving from Google to Kagi. Google serves me primarily ads, whether it labels them ads or pretends the results aren't ads, they're mostly ads. I see the same horrible domains pop up frequently, and there's nothing I can do about it. Kagi gives me the ability to remove these domains from my search, and it is INCREDIBLE. How many times has Pinterest barged into your search results?

Now, one could argue that these are domains which no one wants in their search feed. So perhaps this could be solved by being less beholden to shareholders and an advertising model. However, what about domains which most people want, but I don't? For example, I was finding increasingly polarising political content coming from MSNBC. I didn't like their "human" angle on news, and I didn't appreciate their extremely polarising commentary. So I want to remove all MSNBC results from my search feed. I understand I am probably in the minority. Perhaps my political views don't align with the typical customer. Could a well designed search provider anticipate this need of mine without giving me some kind of method to tell the provider that I don't want to see MSNBC? I'm not convinced so.

So I think the answer here is both. Design a search engine well, and give users the ability to customise it.

Re: The next Google

#476

Post by imtemplain »

mostlysimilar wrote: post #74
Barrin92 wrote: post #45

I think 'more customization' which is a theme with a lot of these alternatives is a fundamental dead end. I don't know where this persistent myth comes from that people love choice and tinkering, because they clearly don't. There's a huge cost associated with having to make choices, and one feature of successful modern apps is that they're frictionless. That's why TikTok is so successful. There's no login, no user ch…

> a simple box where you put a question in and it gives you answers Google is very good at this, but this is exactly what I _don't_ want in the "Next Google". I want a _search engine_ for the web, not an answers engine that tries to know what I want better than I do. Search the web. Give me links to websites. This seems obvious to me, but everyone is trying to be like Google. I'm convinced the death of the web and in…

No post body was provided.

Re: The next Google

#478

Post by Gareth321 »

spiderice wrote: post #212
fallat wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's actually so good I plan to pay when they start charging.

It's really good in some ways, and very lacking (for me) in others. The search is fine. Good enough that I would switch. However, if I was out and about and quickly needed directions to Walmart, my normal flow with Google is Pull out phone -> Safari -> type "Walmart" -> click on the map -> Maps app opens and starts guiding me When I switched to Kagi, the flow went like Pull out phone -> Safari -> type "Walmart" -> to…

I agree this disrupts my muscle memory, but if we're honest, that particular workflow isn't necessarily optimal. It's just what Google has trained us to do. If you're seeking directions to Walmart, the most efficient (and one might argue intuitive) method is to open your maps app directly, and type in "Walmart".

Re: The next Google

#479

Post by avnigo »

koonsolo wrote: post #466

I have a solution for the google problem, but don't have time to pursue this myself. So anyone interested, steal my idea! (Or bash it in the replies, it's HN after all :D) Instead of pagerank we need peoplerank. Let's say we build a new elgooG search engine that you can customize by indicating which people you trust. For example I say to trust Paul Graham about the topics entrepreneur and startup. Then, authors like…

I sort of like where the idea is going, but I don't like that it just depends on trust. People would become search engine "influencers" that you follow, and would get paid to bless certain articles, as along as they exude an air of trustworthiness. So in a sense, instead of Google being the ad server, the people you follow are.

Maybe a combination of trust and reputation would work better, but you might still get groups of people vouching for each other's recommendations. I guess it's not an easy problem.

Re: The next Google

#480

Post by can16358p »

Barrin92 wrote: post #45

I think 'more customization' which is a theme with a lot of these alternatives is a fundamental dead end. I don't know where this persistent myth comes from that people love choice and tinkering, because they clearly don't. There's a huge cost associated with having to make choices, and one feature of successful modern apps is that they're frictionless. That's why TikTok is so successful. There's no login, no user ch…

This! This is why I love Apple products too. It abstracts away many of the things that 99% of the people (general public, not HN community) don't need or use.

It's better to focus on the core basics and perfecting it than to add many features and try to support and maintain them especially if they are features that only 1% of the users use.

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