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Start Self Hosting

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Re: Start Self Hosting

#471

Post by tashbarg »

squarefoot wrote: post #464

The awesome-selfhosted list is ..well.. awesome, however it lacks a hardware category to collect links and information on cheap low power small devices to be used to host our personal data/services, both to avoid keeping beefier PCs up 24/7 and to better isolate their functions. It could for example include from tiny boards with the bare minimum necessary to host very light services (Single NIC Raspberry/Orange/Nano/…

> this m.2 to SATA port replicator reportedly works perfectly with Linux

That's a port multiplier and if that works or not depends more on the SATA controller and less on the operating system. Far from all SATA controllers support port multipliers. And even less support fast port multipliers (FIS), which is not much of an issue if your main target is size.

Re: Start Self Hosting

#472

Post by dusted »

It's not self hosting if it's not on your hardware, on your property, using your internet connection.

It's still just having some other random person or company hosting it FOR you.

The single biggest problem with real self-hosting is not a software one, even with all the software and hardware setup and working, the real problem is limits imposed on normal internet subscriptions by modern ISPs: Carrier grade NAT, lack of access to public routable IPs, lack of smarthosting combined with the IP blocking outgoing ports (which is somehow not illegal).

Re: Start Self Hosting

#473

Post by nitnelave »

I've been self hosting for nearly 10 years now, and in all this time the biggest pain point I remember is setting up OpenLDAP. That's why I created LLDAP (https://github.com/nitnelave/lldap), a minimalistic LDAP server with a nice web interface that is very easy to set up and configure. It needs a little bit more love before the 1.0 release, but it's already very usable.

Re: Start Self Hosting

#474

Post by account42 »

lmns wrote: post #468
v_p_n_p_v wrote: post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you all proved the point that this system is too complicated for anyone outside of a small group of professional IT people.

Are you implying that getting init script customisations overwritten by package managers isn't a problem with non-systemd init managers? I have lost track how often that happened with sysvinit, because the "logic" how to treat customisations was usually handled by the package manager and they messed it up regularly. systemd has a standard way to handle customisations. As long as you put everything you do in /etc/syst…

> Are you implying that getting init script customisations overwritten by package managers isn't a problem with non-systemd init managers?

Traditionally, init scripts were installed into /etc but package managers (or at least some of them?) took/take care to not overwrite files under /etc but instead let you merge in the new changes.

Re: Start Self Hosting

#475

Post by Hendrikto »

takinola wrote: post #330
Hendrikto wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> SystemD is complicated for a layperson Is it? It has clean and logical abstractions, and consistency. Services depending in each other isn‘t complex or difficult to understand. I suspect that a nice GUI would make systemd quite usable for non-expert users. BTW: It‘s called ”systemd“: > Yes, it is written systemd, not system D or System D, or even SystemD. And it isn't system d either. [0] [0]: https://www.freedeskt…

If you know what systemd is, you are, by definition, not a layperson.

End users would not need to know. They could just click the activate button in a GUI.

Re: Start Self Hosting

#476

Post by pandacasi »

nitnelave wrote: post #473

I've been self hosting for nearly 10 years now, and in all this time the biggest pain point I remember is setting up OpenLDAP. That's why I created LLDAP ( https://github.com/nitnelave/lldap ), a minimalistic LDAP server with a nice web interface that is very easy to set up and configure. It needs a little bit more love before the 1.0 release, but it's already very usable.

A pity that I haven't found this earlier. OpenLDAP is definitely a pain, especially if you want Docker+Alpine Container+Group Management. I created a Docker container for myself but I wasn't able to get the group feature to work. Maybe I'll check this out. Thank you for mentioning!

Re: Start Self Hosting

#477

Post by Hendrikto »

bavila wrote: post #360
Hendrikto wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> SystemD is complicated for a layperson Is it? It has clean and logical abstractions, and consistency. Services depending in each other isn‘t complex or difficult to understand. I suspect that a nice GUI would make systemd quite usable for non-expert users. BTW: It‘s called ”systemd“: > Yes, it is written systemd, not system D or System D, or even SystemD. And it isn't system d either. [0] [0]: https://www.freedeskt…

> It has clean and logical abstractions, and consistency. Sorry, but an actual layperson would already be lost upon reaching the word "abstraction".

I am talking to technical people here. You would not expose that terminology to end users.

Re: Start Self Hosting

#478

Post by tjpnz »

Remember that self hosting doesn't necessarily mean having to manage a server - not in the traditional sense at least. Many of the things mentioned in TFA are fairly trivial to setup with a consumer grade NAS.

Re: Start Self Hosting

#479

Post by Hendrikto »

hsn915 wrote: post #319
Hendrikto wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> SystemD is complicated for a layperson Is it? It has clean and logical abstractions, and consistency. Services depending in each other isn‘t complex or difficult to understand. I suspect that a nice GUI would make systemd quite usable for non-expert users. BTW: It‘s called ”systemd“: > Yes, it is written systemd, not system D or System D, or even SystemD. And it isn't system d either. [0] [0]: https://www.freedeskt…

Comments like yours are a great example of why Linux has a hard time being user friendly. You take something that's deeply technical but easy to understand for yourself, and somehow generalize it to everyone. "If it's easy for me, it is easy for everyone", without noticing that perhaps your expertise plays a big role in making it easy. The better question is why should a layperson ever need to know about systemd in t…

Did you even read my comment? You are attacking a strawman.

> You take something that's […] easy to understand for yourself, and somehow generalize it to everyone. "If it's easy for me, it is easy for everyone"

No. I am taking something that‘s easy for me, and suggest making it easy for everybody.

> The better question is why should a layperson ever need to know about systemd in the first place.

They shouldn‘t, and I did not say so. That‘s the strawman.

Does an average Windows user know about the NT kernel? No, and he does not need to.

> When designing products for end users who are not technical, the overriding design goal should be easiness and reliability.

I agree.

> having to learn about systemd, by definition makes the product/system not easy.

You would not have to learn it though. You could just flip a switch in the GUI.

> they should not even have to learn about its existence.

And they would not have to.

I don‘t know how my car works, and I don‘t need to. I can use the simple interface (steering wheel, pedals, shift) which is exposed to me.

> A system where editing text files can make or break the system

> You edit a text file.

Again, complete strawman. You would not edit text files.

Re: Start Self Hosting

#480

Post by account42 »

dusted wrote: post #472

It's not self hosting if it's not on your hardware, on your property, using your internet connection. It's still just having some other random person or company hosting it FOR you. The single biggest problem with real self-hosting is not a software one, even with all the software and hardware setup and working, the real problem is limits imposed on normal internet subscriptions by modern ISPs: Carrier grade NAT, lack…

You're also not hosting any parties if you rent your home. But mainly that's because your pedantry will not be entertaining enough to keep any guests. Others however will realize that hosting your own services on a generic VPS or dedicated server gives you much more freedom than a you-are-the-product service that does anything legally possible and then some to lock you in. Sure, hosting on your own hardware in a place you control has advantages, but as you said it is also significantly more difficult so that is no excuse to dismiss other options.
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