CEO and co-founder of Routefusion here, a cross-border bank to bank payment API. We use the SWIFT network regularly. I can 100% confirm that all money in the world is just literally numbers, and it is balanced by the different federal reserve systems around the world to ensure no one can "create" money without notifying everyone. I guess if I was super cool I would do an AMA because this is the only thread that is re…
What would keep some entity that has its SWIFT access revoked from switching to China's CIPS or even crypto? Would it be merely an inconvenience, requiring the change of a few processes, or would it create hard problems?
A quick breakdown of what SWIFT is and why it matters
471–480 of 496 posts
Re: A quick breakdown of what SWIFT is and why it matters
#472Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't believe this is accurate. I don't think anyone would arbitrarily just ban all trade like that. And if that's what they did intend, that's what they would say and the consequences are much bigger. It's kind of a 'de facto' ban however, in that, it's hard to pay people otherwise. I'm sure a Swiss bank or two could immediately broker transactions 'by hand' though, that would be a pretty easy way around things. T…
Yes. This whole thing is just once more revealing the cluelessness of our political classes. SWIFT is just a messaging system with verified identities, some schemas and a bit of business logic on the side. It exists because wire transfers predate the internet, not because it's clever or actually critical infrastructure. Disconnect Russian banks from SWIFT? OK, submit your SWIFT formatted messages to banks via this he…
Re: A quick breakdown of what SWIFT is and why it matters
#473CEO and co-founder of Routefusion here, a cross-border bank to bank payment API. We use the SWIFT network regularly. I can 100% confirm that all money in the world is just literally numbers, and it is balanced by the different federal reserve systems around the world to ensure no one can "create" money without notifying everyone. I guess if I was super cool I would do an AMA because this is the only thread that is re…
How does one connect to the SWIFT network? Say, someone wants to start a company for providing some financial service like fund transfer across borders, then connecting to SWIFT will be very helpful. I was always fascinated by how all this works and what does it take to directly use the SWIFT network. Any insights on this will be really helpful.
I.e. if you go and create a neobank through a baas provider you will inadvertently get access to SWIFT, it won’t be direct but you have access.
To get true access you have to go through and insane process and have a ton of controls and policies and create trust with the governing body of SWIFT.
Re: A quick breakdown of what SWIFT is and why it matters
#474CEO and co-founder of Routefusion here, a cross-border bank to bank payment API. We use the SWIFT network regularly. I can 100% confirm that all money in the world is just literally numbers, and it is balanced by the different federal reserve systems around the world to ensure no one can "create" money without notifying everyone. I guess if I was super cool I would do an AMA because this is the only thread that is re…
Pricing for routefusion?
Re: A quick breakdown of what SWIFT is and why it matters
#475CEO and co-founder of Routefusion here, a cross-border bank to bank payment API. We use the SWIFT network regularly. I can 100% confirm that all money in the world is just literally numbers, and it is balanced by the different federal reserve systems around the world to ensure no one can "create" money without notifying everyone. I guess if I was super cool I would do an AMA because this is the only thread that is re…
what are the best books/resources to read about the system?
Re: A quick breakdown of what SWIFT is and why it matters
#476CEO and co-founder of Routefusion here, a cross-border bank to bank payment API. We use the SWIFT network regularly. I can 100% confirm that all money in the world is just literally numbers, and it is balanced by the different federal reserve systems around the world to ensure no one can "create" money without notifying everyone. I guess if I was super cool I would do an AMA because this is the only thread that is re…
I thought swift was just a protocol that banks used to talk to one another. If so how can it be used to cut russia? I’m guessing I’m missing a part where it is some centralized server somewhere?
Re: A quick breakdown of what SWIFT is and why it matters
#477Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't believe this is accurate. I don't think anyone would arbitrarily just ban all trade like that. And if that's what they did intend, that's what they would say and the consequences are much bigger. It's kind of a 'de facto' ban however, in that, it's hard to pay people otherwise. I'm sure a Swiss bank or two could immediately broker transactions 'by hand' though, that would be a pretty easy way around things. T…
Yes. This whole thing is just once more revealing the cluelessness of our political classes. SWIFT is just a messaging system with verified identities, some schemas and a bit of business logic on the side. It exists because wire transfers predate the internet, not because it's clever or actually critical infrastructure. Disconnect Russian banks from SWIFT? OK, submit your SWIFT formatted messages to banks via this he…
Russian Oligarchs have their massive yachts in ports in Europe. They are talking about 'no safe haven' but it's BS.
If they want to do something, they can go after those ships. That said, many of them hold dual citizenship which makes legal problems.
Also, the corrupt oligarchs serve as a conduit for money fuelling out of Russia to the West, I mean, they are kind of doing the West a favour to Russia's detriment.
Europeans need to come together right now and pledge to absolve themselves of Russian Oil. It means major investment in Nuclear.
Germany also has to start assuming responsibilities of leadership. They are benefiting the most from the Euro, and frankly European integration as they are sucking jobs and talented workers in form Spain, Italy etc. they have to share the burden of things like military leadership.
Poland right now is supporting Ukraine in all sorts of ways, it's amazing to see, and they are not a rich country.
Unlike the wave of migrants in 2015, these neighbouring refugees are being welcomed.
Re: A quick breakdown of what SWIFT is and why it matters
#478Earlier quoted context omitted.
Some good answers above provide more detail here, but ultimately yes: money, for the most part, really just is a number on a computer. Here’s a good example: when you borrow $500,000 from the bank, the bank’s funds don’t go down by $500,000. The bank just creates that money out of thin air, by adding to the number in your bank balance. Eventually that number goes down as you repay the loan, so it all washes out in th…
> when you borrow $500,000 from the bank, the bank’s funds don’t go down by $500,000 While technically true, this is a bit misleading, because if you actually /do/ anything with the $500,000, that does in fact cause the bank's funds (i.e. reserves) to go down. If you withdraw it in cash, then the bank will have to give you some of the Federal Reserve Notes it has in its vault, and when they request more from the Fede…
And while that is indeed technically true, it only applies to money withdrawn as banknotes. Given that most of the economy is electronic transactions, that loan is to all extents and purposes real money created by the bank out of thin air (modulo capital requirements to back debt).
Re: A quick breakdown of what SWIFT is and why it matters
#479So a bank (Bank-A) trusts you to send SWIFT messages, all you can do with these messages is make accounting debits & credits within that bank. e.g. please debit $100 from my account number 12345 to account 67890. You can also chain the messages, something like, debit my account $100, credit the account of Bank-B, and send my message on to Bank-B. The message to Bank-B might say (debit Bank-B and) credit John-Doe-account.
(It's the job of the treasury department within the bank to monitor & keep these nostro [other bank] accounts funded)
Perhaps not obvious, but banks don't have hundreds of correspondent accounts. So to send money from a small town bank in Peru, to another small town bank in Palau, there are going to be a lot of these back-to-back transactions. The pathways are determined by hardcoded rules - not by SWIFT - but by each bank in the chain.
So sanctioning SWIFT is one part. The other part is getting every bank on SWIFT to remove all correspondent banking rules going via Russia. (Quite nice work I suppose).
Since the messages themselves are just XML, and not partially large, you could easily put all the days messages which got rejected into a .zip & use email (I suspect this is common operationally anyway).
Any kind of sanction on SWIFT would instantly lead to private MQ (or whatever flavor of messaging) infrastructure springing up everywhere & total chaos for every bank in the world (i.e. quite different to Iran). This would cause a reduction in the number of correspondent accounts each bank would be willing to maintain. So longer pathways, slower international payments.
I doubt SWIFT could recover from a sanction. It would just close down. The endgame being heterogeneous networks, poorer monitoring, so the USA lose.
The sanctions put on individual Russian banks can be monitored (by SWIFT). In likelihood they are not used as correspondent banks.
>How does the system guarantee that nobody's creating money without notifying everyone? SWIFT doesn't do this. I suppose a special audit is triggered (see Wirecard ) and the Auditor should catch it.
Re: A quick breakdown of what SWIFT is and why it matters
#480Earlier quoted context omitted.
All currency is fiat. No medium of exchange that isn't strictly bartering is of arbitrary value.
Fiat currency here is obviously being used to refer to currencies created by government decree. Plenty of other moneys come into existence emergently, most obviously gold and silver without any authority mandating their use. Money is an emergent property of human society, not a gift handed down by our divinely established kings. The idea that money can only exist by government decree is patently absurd.
It's a bad term and I fight it everywhere I can.
> The idea that money can only exist by government decree is patently absurd.
No one put forth that idea here. I'm just saying that the idea that there is a non-arbitrary currency is equally absurd.