The data are clear: The boys are not all right • Hacker News Board

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#471

Post by Jtype » Wed, Feb 09, 2022, 11:50 PM UTC

fiftyfifty wrote: post #112

lph wrote: post #46

Andrew Yang makes some good points in this piece, particularly about positive masculinity and role models. Whether fair or not, the perception that the left is hostile to men has driven recruitment for the far right, and that merits some reflection. But he's also really facile about underlying economic causes. It's easy to blame problems on "our culture has been broken by the wokes!", but many of the problems of youn…

I've coached high school sports teams, both boys and girls, for the last two decades. I've seen some of these trends unfold over the years with my student athletes. My observation is girls are just more motivated than boys, even for something fun like sports practices and workouts, girls in general will show up more consistently than boys. The teachers I've spoken to at the school where I coach have confirmed the sam…

Schools and the media have been focusing exclusively on motivating girls, so it's really no wonder that more girls than boys act that way.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#472

Post by grvdrm » Wed, Feb 09, 2022, 11:52 PM UTC

paulryanrogers wrote: post #332

grvdrm wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spend some time reading about infertility at the start of the baby making process and I think you’ll find that it can terribly difficult. Especially as you progress into your mid/late 30s (women). And it is that starting process that can also cost lots of money, time, and energy.

Great call out. I forgot about some struggles in this regard myself, though IME dwarfed by the aftermath.

As two-kid dad, I definitely agree that the time, energy, and cost of delivering and raising kids is HUGE. It's not something that you should undervalue at all.

But I think we have this unfortunate habit of severely underweighting the start process and things that aren't obvious.

You probably experience lots of stress over the span of raising a kid (or more). Other people see that in the classic screaming-kid seemingly-helpless-parent visual. You may also experience that same stress, perhaps cumulatively more, just from the start because it's (1) VERY stressful when it doesn't work, and (2) a situation that can drag on for what feels like forever.

So, everyone commiserates over work it is to raise a kid but few people talk openly or at all about how hard it is to start the process of having a kid.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#473

Post by medo-bear » Wed, Feb 09, 2022, 11:53 PM UTC

ytwombly wrote: post #150

US-based cis-hetero white man here. The data reinforce the impression you get glancing at the headlines or spending a day out anywhere in America observing other men. Dare I say it even reinforces what I know from painful firsthand experience as a man, at the lowest points in my life. I was lucky though, with a supportive family who helped me through the confusing years of early adulthood. You can point to the declin…

> US-based cis-hetero white man here

?

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#474

Post by mrjangles » Wed, Feb 09, 2022, 11:53 PM UTC

awaythrow483 wrote: post #359

paulpauper wrote: post #111

The crisis, if there is one, is that society has less use for males who have IQs between 90-105 or so, who cannot cut it in STEM, and who are finding it hard to cope with increasingly competitive economic conditions and higher overall costs like rent, and is why many men are delaying family formation or moving back with parents (but also due to careerism for women). Men are just dropping out rather than doing low-pai…

I'm 33, Ive got a fairly high IQ, make $340k in a STEM field and enough to retire tomorrow, I'm not unattractive, and put a huge amount of effort over many years into online dating. I've pretty much given up on dating. I have a total inability to find anyone I'm interested in that is interested in me. When I was younger and I wanted to go to bars and get drunk and be an idiot I had plenty of attractive sexual partner…

>huge amount of effort over many years into online dating

My god I hope you aren't talking about tinder are you? You are totally clueless about women and dating if that is what you are talking about.

Go out to bars, talk to people, do activities and meet lots of people. stop doing 'online' dating (of any kind)

Seriously, myself and everyone I know found that upon reaching 33 the interest from women in their 20s sky rockets. You are definitely doing something wrong, not society.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#475

Post by smoldesu » Wed, Feb 09, 2022, 11:53 PM UTC

ceasesurthinko wrote: post #436

ReactiveJelly wrote: post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard the causation goes the other way for ADHD. TV and TikTok don't cause ADHD. They're products that arise to exploit people's attention, and they work excellently on people with poor executive function. TV doesn't cause ADHD, ADHD causes TV. You can probably train attention span, and there are ways to cope with ADHD (I cope pretty well, and I have only mild symptoms), but it's measurable and it's genetic. I g…

I don't know, the vast majority of teens are users of TikTok, and attention spans are undoubtedly decreasing across the board. Everyone. Yet I don't think the majority of the population had ADHD previously. If the incidence of ADHD was really like the 4-8% in the medical literature, then we would see 4-8% of teens hooked to TikTok, but no, it's a majority (>50%) of teens that are hooked to Tiktok/youtube/instagram.

I could see it go either way, but I think it's important to distinguish that apps/platforms that exploit short attention spans don't exclusively have effect on people with ADHD (nor do all ADHD-diagnosed people neccesarily use TikTok). There's a number of reasons why people might want to seek out short-form content; they're on the go, they can't focus at the precise moment they want to peruse social media, or they want to blow by a huge amount of diverse content in a short amount of time.

That being said, I despise TikTok personally and would even go as far as to say that these short-form content platforms are reinforcing lower attention spans, but does it cause ADHD? I think that's a stretch. What's more likely is that it turns susceptible individuals into "whales" who sink time into it like nobody else. Not just ADHD folks, but those who are lonely or lack socialization too.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#476

Post by barry-cotter » Wed, Feb 09, 2022, 11:54 PM UTC

clutchdude wrote: post #446

orange_joe wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People work 10% fewer hours now than in the 1960s, but the obesity rate has gone up from 13% in that time period to 36%. The obesity crisis is IMO more related to what we eat, and an increasingly sedentary lifestyle. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/AVHWPEUSA065NRUG

Total hours worked in the US has DOUBLED since then. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/B4701C0A222NBEA And more work is done part-time(usually by those are unable to work full time jobs) https://alfred.stlouisfed.org/series?seid=B4701C0A222NBEA&ut...

Total hours worked by people who are being paid. If you’re working on a farm but you’re a farmer’s wife you’re not being paid. Female liberation resulted in a very large increase in the labor force, a much less drastic rise in hours worked than in paid labor hours.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#477

Post by ngokevin » Wed, Feb 09, 2022, 11:57 PM UTC

lph wrote: post #46

Andrew Yang makes some good points in this piece, particularly about positive masculinity and role models. Whether fair or not, the perception that the left is hostile to men has driven recruitment for the far right, and that merits some reflection. But he's also really facile about underlying economic causes. It's easy to blame problems on "our culture has been broken by the wokes!", but many of the problems of youn…

He ran on these core issues that the economy is failing the people (read: "A War on Normal People", it's just packed with data about what you're thinking about). This article focuses on one angle, but not doesn't encompass the entire view (which he already spent years campaigning on)

I believe he addresses the root causes more than Bernie. Free college + federal jobs, or rather should we live in a society in where corporations are so productive that people shouldn't just follow a college track + work themselves to death to stay afloat

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#478

Post by goostavos » Wed, Feb 09, 2022, 11:58 PM UTC

spockz wrote: post #448

goostavos wrote: post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ehhhh... I don't know that capitalism can be blamed for personal irresponsibility. I'd say it's more of a motivation / knowledge thing. You don't have to live in the gym to get in shape. I spend about 4.5 hours per week total. Even when I've been in the very rare 70-80 hour/week death march, I could take an hour out of my day to go to the gym and lift. Similarly, dieting is not an activity, more so the absence of one…

Okay. And now add any of the following, or a combination, to that situation: * Ill partner or family members to take care of * Child(ren) * Studying * Long travel times * Irregular working times * Poor upbringing food wise * Stress * Sleep deprivation * etc Is it still so easy then? That pizza tastes good and is real comforting.

Welp, you've described "being alive," a condition for which some are still able to carve our an hour a few days per week to hit the gym.

That said, "I have sleep deprivation" is indeed a common reason for skipping leg day (along with the vernal equinox)[0].

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BS-oRydlnCE

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#479

Post by zozbot234 » Thu, Feb 10, 2022, 12:01 AM UTC

astrange wrote: post #402

api wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 20 trillion in debt for illegal and stupid wars That's really the elephant in the living room. Perhaps as a society we are poorer because we set fire to trillions in the deserts of Iraq and Afghanistan. For the HN crowd here's a metric: the average seed round is like $2M these days, so Iraq at roughly $3 trillion would be enough to fund 1.5 million startup companies.

Increasing the national debt doesn’t decrease private savings, it increases them. The nation is not a household.

Seed rounds are a form of investment, and debt crowds out private investment.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#480

Post by giantg2 » Thu, Feb 10, 2022, 12:03 AM UTC

astrange wrote: post #413

giantg2 wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regardless of gender, it seems rare that only one partner would be making more than enough to support the family. It's very difficult to make ends meet with a family on a single salary these days (without assistance; and what about saving for retirement? ).

A dual-income family isn’t necessarily evidence that you need two incomes to survive. Rather, it just means there’s a lot of things out there to buy, so it's worth paying for childcare to earn more money. It’s also a sign that the gender income gap decreased, because it’s worth both people’s time to work. It’s not worth womens’ time to work either when the family is poor (because they can’t earn much and might as wel…

Most families need two incomes in my experience.

"This means the easiest way to get back to a one-income family is to lower womens’ wages again, so you probably shouldn’t wish for it."

There's no connection to this and the rest of your post. It also assumes that families don't need two incomes to stay out of poverty or off of assistance.

The easiest ways according to your post is to make a family poor or rich.