No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation • Hacker News Board

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#471

Post by malfist » Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 5:25 PM UTC

slackfan wrote: post #464

malfist wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speed limits are also anti-fun. Being anti-fun isn't an argument against regulation

Speed limits are primarily environmental regulation and have little to nothing to do with safety. By extention, they happen to be anti-fun. The Autobahn is still not a 24/7 disaster zone of dead bodies and scrapped cars last time I checked.

Sure, interstate speedlimits are somewhat about gas mileage. But I'm going to need some citation from you that a 25mph speedlimit in a residential area is about environmental impacts and not safety.

Sure the autobahn isn't a meat grinder, but there's a difference between safe and unsafe, and unsafe doesn't mean everyone dies.

Regardless, doesn't matter if the regulation is for safety or environmental protection, being "anti-fun" isn't an argument against them.

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#472

Post by jokethrowaway » Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 5:25 PM UTC

kstrauser wrote: post #159

Although I live in a place where weed is legal, I don’t use it. I enjoy the occasional glass of a nice scotch, though, and I love a good stout or porter beer. This is where it gets a little strange for me: by every metric I can think of, I’d be better off replacing alcohol with weed. There seem to be fewer negative effects, it’s not a source of empty calories, and looks like a better recreational drug in every way. A…

You're already giving a bad example to your kids by drinking alcohol.

That's fine. They'll grow up and decide what to do. If they'll drink themselves senseless there must be a bigger problem than seeing you drink alcohol in small quantities.

I certainly am not doing all the mistakes I saw my father's doing and I hope my kids will grow up to be responsible adults which will make their own decisions.

I never lived in a place where weed was legal but for a couple of years I used it as an antidepressant and as a way to unwind. I bought a vaporiser (the healthiest, quickest and hassle-free way to absorb weed - very little smell lingering and you're not smoking paper) and vaped nearly every evening (after kids bedtime) and it was great to survive a hard period of my life. After 2 years I didn't feel the need anymore and I stopped. I can't be bothered to go to onion to buy weed anymore and just drink a beer every once and then when I want to unwind - but if weed was easy to buy I'd definitely buy it and treat it like I treat beers. I'm glad I didn't use alcohol in the same way, merely for the extra calories and for the liver damage.

Still, there is a good reason you're fine drinking a beer in front of your kids but you should avoid vaping in front of your kids - and that's merely to avoid exposing them to passive vapour.

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#473

Post by cma » Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 5:26 PM UTC

helsinkiandrew wrote: post #265

Can anyone find any research in the citations that my glass of red wine in the evening - although it may increase atherosclerosis and have other health implications - doesn't have benefits that offset the drawbacks. https://world-heart-federation.org/wp-content/uploads/WHF-Po... How much do the social, relaxation, and stress relief benefit my health. In the same way that taking a walk in a polluted city has pros and…

> although it may increase atherosclerosis and have other health implications - doesn't have benefits that offset the drawbacks.

You can get all the theoretical benefits by eating grapes or raisins.

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#474

Post by allturtles » Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 5:26 PM UTC

AlwaysRock wrote: post #448

allturtles wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. I find the claim "no level of alcohol consumption is safe" hyperbolic. You could claim with far more justification that "no amount of driving is safe" since you could be killed pulling out of your driveway but I think most people who drive on a daily basis would find this claim odd. "safety" is a relative, not an absolute condition, since in some sense being alive is unsafe.

This is a pretty odd comparison. Some amount of food/caloric intake is healthy or required. Too much is bad. Some amount of water intake is healthy or required. Too much is bad. No amount of arsenic intake is healthy or required. Any is bad. No amount of alcohol intake is healthy or required. Any is bad. Too much of many things is bad. Any amount of some things is bad. Safe may be an odd term for it but alcohols impa…

Arsenic is in all kinds of foods, if you made the claim "no amount of arsenic consumption is safe", you would be arguing that basically everyone's diet is unsafe. What does that even mean?

To take the claim "no amount of alcohol consumption is safe" seriously would mean you shouldn't eat bread, which contains a small amount of alcohol.

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#475

Post by zelphirkalt » Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 5:29 PM UTC

thebean11 wrote: post #454

zelphirkalt wrote: post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have seen many people use such comparisions, which do not match up, to justify unhealthy behavior for themselves, shutting themselves out from proper reasoning. That is how it is relevant. I am saying: Do not fool yourself using such arguments. Also the comparison you now brought up is again not a good argument: It doesn't matter, whether there are unnecessary rides. The argument is, that there are mandatory ones f…

Sure there are mandatory rides, but the argument doesn't hinge on those..you can consider only nonessential rides, and drinking. Both are totally optional, what is your issue with that comparison?

I have no issue with the comparison of nonessential rides. I want to note though, that the original argument was plainly about "pulling out of your driveway".

So if one does nonessential rides only, then yes, the comparison might work. I think that is quite a special case of a situation though, which I cannot simply interpret into what the original argument said. I mean, I am not here to interpret a working version into something, that in its generality does not work as a comparison. I rather read things as they are written and try not to add things.

We could speculate about how many people use a car mostly to be able to get to the location of work or how many people use a car for essential reasons. We are getting further away from the actual matter of discussion though, which is drinking alcohol and that not being requried at all.

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#476

Post by tsol » Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 5:30 PM UTC

flippyhead wrote: post #82

I've heard this more lately and can't square it with what I had understood about those super long-lived cultures; like in Italy or Japan, where supposedly they drink moderate amounts of alcohol approximately daily.

I've heard of having a glass of wine in meals in Italy, but does Japan really have a culture of daily drinking? Either way, that brings up use patterns. Here we tend to binge drink, with the purpose of getting drunk. That's not the same in such cultures. They have a much more moderate view of alcohol. A glass of wine and shots are two very different things

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#477

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 5:30 PM UTC

endisneigh wrote: post #42

Of course it isn’t. Drink water. Unfortunately some people believe they can’t enjoy themselves without alcohol. It’s curious: - babies have fun without drinking - kids have fun without drinking - some teens have fun without drinking Then at some point some people, as adults, feel like they have to drink to enjoy themselves? I wonder what happened. Edit: explicitly clarifying that I’m only talking about some people he…

[deleted]

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#478

Post by P_I_Staker » Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 5:30 PM UTC

ravenstine wrote: post #310

P_I_Staker wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it’s really a myth that science is changing so much. You can look at dietary recommendations from the 70s, and they’re fine. Eat your plants and don’t eat garbage. The food pyramid was more a product of lobbying than science. The doctors advice wasn't that bad, although there would be less knowledge of the dangers of refined carbs. People want it to be true that the doctors don’t know what they’re doing, but it…

Honestly, I find it baffling when people think that doctors know what they're talking about when it comes to nutrition. Maybe things have changed in recent years, and that would be great, but in my experience and from the anecdotes of others, my conception of what doctors understand is the opposite of what you describe. Granted, I do agree that the science actually hasn't changed that much , and that doctors who do r…

Doctors often don’t have to know that much about nutrition, beyond telling you to eat your plants, and some stuff targeted at people who need specific diets.

You say they’re clueless on fitness and nutrition, but I don’t know what information they should be expected to know. Your talking about topics riddled with bullshit, when you look at public discourse.

Honestly, there’s not much to know other than to eat food that’s pretty famously healthy (plants), and avoid sugars. Now they definitely want you to limit meat, excessive fats, and refined carbs, too; but the basics are really simple.

There’s lots of studies out there, but there seems to be very little that’s clear other than those basic guidelines. You can really run around in circles with how complex this subject is, yet ignore the basics.

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#479

Post by hydrok9 » Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 5:30 PM UTC

2Gkashmiri wrote: post #9

as someone who grew up i a community that has for many reasons, religious, social, economic that no one really does alcohol. when there is nobody who is drunk, we have 0 drunk driving cases, 0 cases of people ending up in wrong places, 0 cases of alcoholism, 0 cases of "well we will just mix a drink with something more recreational", no need for AA among a host of other things including not having to budget alcohol i…

The answer to your question is in your statement. Most communities don't have "many reasons" to favour prohibition, in fact most communities don't even have one. Yes there's the idea that no alcohol = no alcohol-caused problems, but people don't assume they will have a problem when they start to drink.

In my area, the only dry communities are small towns with strong Mennonite backgrounds. And in every one of those towns, there's a bar right outside city limits, or in the next town over, where people in the dry community go to drink.

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#480

Post by tsol » Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 5:33 PM UTC

bena wrote: post #206

I love studies like this. Because it shows exactly where our lines are. If this is true, we should stop drinking. That's what the data says. But if you won't, I really don't want to hear you opining on anyone else's choice of unhealthy vice.

It's interesting how much opposition these articles get. I notice a lot of people are annoyed just at the declaration that alcohol is bad for you. People almost seem to take it personally. I know people like their alcohol, but I'm surprised how defensive people get just at the idea it's unhealthy.