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Unvaccinated workers who lose jobs ineligible for unemployment benefits (Canada)

edmontonjournal.com

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Re: Unvaccinated workers who lose jobs ineligible for unemployment benefits (Canada)

#471

Post by slibhb »

Spivak wrote: post #412
moralestapia wrote: post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But the point is that anti-vaccine people tend to be the hateful ones. Hi Trudeau! Listen, the issue here is that you cannot clump two uncorrelated issues together, and even if they were correlated, it wouldn't be fair as for sure there's people that (please sit down, this may me quite shocking to you) do not want to get the vaccine BUT are also not part of whatever group you refer to as "the hateful ones".

Nowhere does “vaccines, masks, and lockdowns became a wedge issue picked up by large groups of people largely associated with hate” and “anyone who is anti-vax must be a part of that group.” You absolutely can clump unrelated issues together when they’re specifically adopted by people who organize under a common banner or label. You don’t think that issues that make up “the liberal agenda” are reasonably well defined…

I don't see how your behavior is any different from assuming all black men are criminals. I think you're wrong for same reason that assumption is wrong.

Re: Unvaccinated workers who lose jobs ineligible for unemployment benefits (Canada)

#472

Post by commandlinefan »

atoav wrote: post #311
charlieyu1 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no science if doubts aren’t allowed.

Slight change: There is no science if reasonable doubts aren't allowed. The thing with this pandemic is, that the time where you could have a reasonable doubt in the vaccines are over for a while now. We vaccinated half of earths population. If there would have been horrible side effects they would have shown. The more data we gather the clearer the picture becomes and the less reasonable certain doubts become. The t…

> there would have been horrible side effects they would have shown

If they actually protected you against the virus that would have shown too, though.

Re: Unvaccinated workers who lose jobs ineligible for unemployment benefits (Canada)

#473

Post by simonh »

ifyoubuildit wrote: post #349
simonh wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unvaccinated people are a threat to the public on many grounds. Many of these points are already all over this discussion here, but you’re asking so here they are. Unvaccinated people with covid on average have the infection for longer and have higher viral loads, so they are more likely to spread the virus to others than vaccinated people are. They are much more likely to need hospitalisation, putting a burden on th…

We have a terminology problem, and nobody seems to notice or care. Everyone is using sloppy language and has been for most of this thing. In reality, there are more bits here than just vaccine status, and even that isn't binary, unless you start talking about the moving target of "fully vaccinated". An unvaccinated person who has been infected and recovered is not at all the same as a person who has not. Yet here you…

We can’t make special rules tailored to every individual. That’s completely untenable. How long ago did they get covid? How can we be sure?

Vaccination status can be recorded and tracked, and supplemented with booster shots to maintain efficacy, so it’s a reliable indicator.

Re: Unvaccinated workers who lose jobs ineligible for unemployment benefits (Canada)

#474

Post by ifyoubuildit »

simonh wrote: post #473
ifyoubuildit wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have a terminology problem, and nobody seems to notice or care. Everyone is using sloppy language and has been for most of this thing. In reality, there are more bits here than just vaccine status, and even that isn't binary, unless you start talking about the moving target of "fully vaccinated". An unvaccinated person who has been infected and recovered is not at all the same as a person who has not. Yet here you…

We can’t make special rules tailored to every individual. That’s completely untenable. How long ago did they get covid? How can we be sure? Vaccination status can be recorded and tracked, and supplemented with booster shots to maintain efficacy, so it’s a reliable indicator.

Does what you just said somehow make it better that you (and virtually everyone else I see talking about this stuff) is saying things that are more than a little inaccurate? What do you think that does for good will in these kinds of conversations?

When you (the royal you, not just you specifically) are going to get into proclaiming what we all can or cannot do, it seems like there should be some care paid to being precise, and being correct. Its no skin off your back if you're a little loose with your terminology, but there are many millions of folks that you're maligning by doing so, folks that you need to come along with whatever policies you're proposing, unless you want to go full on despot mode.

Better terminology would go a long way towards getting people on the same page.

Re: Unvaccinated workers who lose jobs ineligible for unemployment benefits (Canada)

#475

Post by lamontcg »

salawat wrote: post #373
atoav wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Slight change: There is no science if reasonable doubts aren't allowed. The thing with this pandemic is, that the time where you could have a reasonable doubt in the vaccines are over for a while now. We vaccinated half of earths population. If there would have been horrible side effects they would have shown. The more data we gather the clearer the picture becomes and the less reasonable certain doubts become. The t…

Myocarditis. I know several mothers squeamish on risking their children to continual rolling of the dice w.r.t the mRNA vector vaccines. Also, I can unequivocally state that no other vaccine have I ever seen that has to be continually boosted to maintain it's efficacy, which sounds to me like a deficiency in memory cell formation. The bigger issue there, is that in spite of that being an interesting quirk of these va…

> Also, I can unequivocally state that no other vaccine have I ever seen that has to be continually boosted to maintain it's efficacy, which sounds to me like a deficiency in memory cell formation.

The mRNA vaccines don't produce IgA-mediated sterilizing mucosal immunity and they would not have been expected to, and they should never have really been expected to or promoted as providing sterilizing immunity.

The point, though, is to prevent severe disease and death which is mediated through memory cells, which are doing just fine and not waning, and mostly likely responsible for the bulk of the headlines that Omicron is less virulent -- because the vaccines are actually working for their intended purpose (turning severe COVID into a bad cold).

The vaccine misinformation on HN is really crazy. Conflating lack of protection against infection to failure to form memory cells is not a remotely well informed take.

The DYOR crowd does the absolute worst research. I don't have a problem with the policy in the title article because you all don't know what you're talking about.

And a multiple shot series of a vaccine is common, most of them are. The initial interval with the mRNA vaccines was probably too short for hypermutation/maturation to happen (but was necessary to get people protected as fast as possible, and to keep the trials as short as possible) so the "boosters" are the really the second shot of a two shot series.

Re: Unvaccinated workers who lose jobs ineligible for unemployment benefits (Canada)

#476

Post by throwaway55421 »

scrollaway wrote: post #466
throwaway55421 wrote: post #449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me know next month, I guess.

Happily. And i fully realize that i obviously am not immune to this and could catch it at any point. My point was that just because it's highly transmissible doesn't guarantee transmission.

Well sure. I apologize for using the word "everyone", I'm using it as a colloquialism.

We're not far off 1 in 5 _confirmed_ in the UK and most of that was pre Omicron.

Based on the experience of my friendship group I believe that huge numbers of people have probably had it and not even noticed. I finally had a positive test and it was indistinguishable from the other 30 times I've woken up a bit tired in the morning over the past two years.

You have to remember that a lot of people aren't tuned in to the "omg test every time you move" stuff.

Re: Unvaccinated workers who lose jobs ineligible for unemployment benefits (Canada)

#477

Post by lalaland1125 »

commandlinefan wrote: post #472
atoav wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Slight change: There is no science if reasonable doubts aren't allowed. The thing with this pandemic is, that the time where you could have a reasonable doubt in the vaccines are over for a while now. We vaccinated half of earths population. If there would have been horrible side effects they would have shown. The more data we gather the clearer the picture becomes and the less reasonable certain doubts become. The t…

> there would have been horrible side effects they would have shown If they actually protected you against the virus that would have shown too, though.

The vaccines do protect people. Look at the data. Vaccinated people are like 5-20x less likely to die or get hospitalized.

Re: Unvaccinated workers who lose jobs ineligible for unemployment benefits (Canada)

#478

Post by lalaland1125 »

onos wrote: post #131
loudtieblahblah wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

In USA at least vaccination rates strongly correlate with class and so races with more poverty have higher unvaccinated rates - blacks and Hispanics. But the advocates here seem to follow the meme that the unvaccinated are all trump supporting deplorables…

That's outdated. Due to better vaccine outreach the vaccination rates between races have mostly equalized.

Re: Unvaccinated workers who lose jobs ineligible for unemployment benefits (Canada)

#480

Post by bell-cot »

lalaland1125 wrote: post #477
commandlinefan wrote: post #472

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there would have been horrible side effects they would have shown If they actually protected you against the virus that would have shown too, though.

The vaccines do protect people. Look at the data. Vaccinated people are like 5-20x less likely to die or get hospitalized.

Many people seem to expect "vaccinated" to mean "enjoy utter immunity to". Kinda like some World of EverDungeon video game, where having the Amulet of Foozaz makes you utterly immune to any & all poisons.

Anti-vaxer's love to play up that meme.

A better analogy would be the body armor that Marines wear in combat zones. No Marine is stupid enough to believe that wearing body armor will make him completely immune to bullets. And certainly no Marine is stupid enough to say "I won't wear it, because it doesn't make me completely immune to bullets".

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