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Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

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Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#471

Post by throw__away7391 »

Gareth321 wrote: post #250

Real wages have been flat since the 1970s ( https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/08/07/for-most-us... ). "Okay, so people's living standards are about the same since 1970?" Not even close. The problem with inflation is that its calculation is fraught with all kinds of selective weighting, bias, and politics. Take a look at the relative differences between the things which have decreased and increased in cost in…

I think life is better today than it was in 1970. You must consider that the 1970s started about 25 years after the United States bombed the bejeezus out of every single major industrial center in the world. America made "the best cars in the world" at a time when factories in Stuttgart, Munich, and Ingolstadt were lying in ruble--and with the world's top scientists, engineers, artists, designers, and architects pouring into the country. The American middle class saw a rapid rise in their wealth and standard of living during this time. An inexperienced worker could walk into a factory job in the US and enjoy a very high level of affluence relative both to their skill and the rest of the world. This state of affairs completely broke down in the 1970s and economic progress in the US after this time has been of an entirely different flavor.

To take 1950-1970 as an example of "the way things ought to be" is highly unrealistic.

Workers in the US are still making more, much much more in most cases, than their counterparts in other countries.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#472

Post by oneoff786 »

Gareth321 wrote: post #250

Real wages have been flat since the 1970s ( https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/08/07/for-most-us... ). "Okay, so people's living standards are about the same since 1970?" Not even close. The problem with inflation is that its calculation is fraught with all kinds of selective weighting, bias, and politics. Take a look at the relative differences between the things which have decreased and increased in cost in…

> And then we come to the other elephant in the room: why are real wages flat?

A lot of it is because workers are doing less. They may be working just as hard, or maybe even harder. They are doing tasks that enable more production. But they are doing less. And many fewer people are required to do it.

More people do the last mile of work that can’t be automated, requiring 0 skill, and little thought. Low end jobs still used to require a fair bit of expertise, but are now dead ends.

Performance in many of these jobs is upper bounded at just showing up and doing it. It’s not even a rat race.

tl;dr low skill labor supply outstrips low skill labor demand.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#473

Post by awhitby »

mercy_dude wrote: post #371
dan-robertson wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> most Americans are significantly worse off since the 1970s I think this is obviously false and hurts the credibility of the rest of this comment. There are many pitfalls with measuring long-term inflation. How much did an internet connection cost in the 1970s? What about a computer? What about a smartphone? These modern technologies make peoples lives much better and were somewhere between impossible and impossibly…

> How much did an internet connection cost in the 1970s? What about a computer? What about a smartphone? This is the elitist fallacy that somehow having access cheap smartphones and plastics mostly manufactured in China at the back of our working class jobs make your life better while all else indicates life expectancy and quality of life across the board is declining for majority of Americans. Many Americans includi…

Quality of life is pretty subjective but US life expectancy rose from about 70 to 79 between 1970 and today.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#474

Post by unpolloloco »

bryanrasmussen wrote: post #389
WalterBright wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a circa 1970 car, and a modern car. The 1970 car is very cheaply built, and is mechanically simple. The quality, complexity, and sheer number of parts of a modern car has increased enormously. Much of that is due to regulation, most every aspect of a car is heavily regulated today. None of this comes for free.

I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest the reasons the modern car has more parts and is not mechanically simple is not the boogeyman of regulations (although I suppose it could have caused some things like say seat belt alerts and airbags) but rather feature creep in the automotive industry, and computerization of everything.

This is a clear example of regulation making cars more complex! In the 70s, there were no crumple zones, airbags, backup cameras, traction control, lighting intensity requirements, or a whole host of other things that are mandated today. Those things do cost money.

That said, this is also a clear shift in consumer demand too - a 1970s $3500 car is going to be a sedan, small, and pretty featureless. Compare that to a $20k Corolla today - which is the same proportion of median income that the $3500 car was in the 70s. It's larger, more reliable, safer, and has a whole bunch more features.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#475

Post by comeonseriously »

silisili wrote: post #58

As someone who does OK, but lives in reality (not the bay area), I feel a revolution coming. I hope it's not a violent one, but who knows at this point. Hopefully it's just a politician with big policy changes. People feel completely disenfranchised. You keep hanging housing over their head but just out of reach like some baby toy, then inflation spikes everything else. What's the point of working even? I don't know…

> As someone who does OK, but lives in reality (not the bay area), I feel a revolution coming.

I keep telling people something has to give soon. The pressures at the fault line are rising.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#476

Post by frankfrankfrank »

birdyrooster wrote: post #449
Gareth321 wrote: post #250

Real wages have been flat since the 1970s ( https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/08/07/for-most-us... ). "Okay, so people's living standards are about the same since 1970?" Not even close. The problem with inflation is that its calculation is fraught with all kinds of selective weighting, bias, and politics. Take a look at the relative differences between the things which have decreased and increased in cost in…

When the federal government can dilute the value of money while giving tons of it to banks and mega corps as near free loans, it becomes inevitable that there is a transfer of wealth up from the bottom.

Something that needs to be at least pointed out is that there is a significant difference between money and currency. Currency is a kind of instrument, mostly to enable current, flow of money in an efficient, productive, and low cost manner to facilitate smooth economy of activities. The problem that we are now facing though is that the governments of the world have committed to defrauding the people, whether to cover up other frauds or to plunder wealth/value.

What we are facing right now with the "money printing" in all its different forms or manifestations, is nothing less and nothing more than just plain fraud. It's really no different than if you were told the painting you are buying is a renaissance masterwork, when it's just a sophisticated fake. It's a bit more nuanced than that because the ruling clan used to understand that they can't get too greedy, but that seems to have changed now since they have just gotten away with ever more brazen frauds over the decades and have not been held accountable in at least a very long time, if at all really ever fully. It used to be "… one for you, two for me, one for you, three for me", we seem to be up to "one for you, 5 billion for me … wow, look how successful and smart I am".

It's the biggest problem I have with people who make excuses for "taxing the rich", because frankly, they didn't earn it at all when the government is essentially defrauding the lower classes and pumping trillions into the upper classes. Unfortunately the well has been polluted and the only way to fix it would be to rescind all the fraudulently earned "money", e.g., seize all wealth over $5 million, but that won't happen for several reasons, so we will get the tune we paid the piper for by drinking from the poisoned well. Round and round it goes, where it stops nobody knows. History tells us though, likely it will end very poorly for some group of people. Abuse begets abuse, and the ruling clan has been abusing hard again for a very long time.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#477

Post by manmal »

ernst_klim wrote: post #258
manmal wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What people in the US call left elites, is being called slightly rightwing in the EU. When I hear comments like „state-funded housing is socialism“ I have to chuckle. That’s just how you make sure people won’t starve if they don’t resort to shady business. Bernie‘s ideas would be called leftist here, but not extremely so.

> is being called slightly rightwing in the EU That's simply not true. > Bernie‘s ideas would be called leftist here Where is "here"? How is "financial transaction tax" a mainstream idea in europe?

As sibling poster mentioned, financial transaction taxes are being openly discussed in the EU. I haven't heard anyone call them socialist at least. Politicians in the US seem to use communism/socialism as a strawman to attack anything that would harm their puppeteers' wallets.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#478

Post by [deleted] »

kilroy123 wrote: post #465
guerrilla wrote: post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you summarize? I don't want to watch this entire video right now even though it seems interesting.

Democracy relies on people being able to vote for what they think is right; with privacy. We removed senators right to vote for the right things in private in ~1970. After this things have gotten very bad in the US–policy wise. Polarization. Extreme lobbing. Partisanship. Fiscal policies that only favor the rich. See this: https://wtfhappenedin1971.com All of this happened after we changed the rules in Congress where…

[deleted]

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#479

Post by specialist »

Gareth321 wrote: post #250

Real wages have been flat since the 1970s ( https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/08/07/for-most-us... ). "Okay, so people's living standards are about the same since 1970?" Not even close. The problem with inflation is that its calculation is fraught with all kinds of selective weighting, bias, and politics. Take a look at the relative differences between the things which have decreased and increased in cost in…

Yes and:

Corporate profits soared while wages flat-lined. Coincidence?

Would a little bit of profit sharing be so terrible?

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#480

Post by rla3rd »

kilroy123 wrote: post #465
guerrilla wrote: post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you summarize? I don't want to watch this entire video right now even though it seems interesting.

Democracy relies on people being able to vote for what they think is right; with privacy. We removed senators right to vote for the right things in private in ~1970. After this things have gotten very bad in the US–policy wise. Polarization. Extreme lobbing. Partisanship. Fiscal policies that only favor the rich. See this: https://wtfhappenedin1971.com All of this happened after we changed the rules in Congress where…

fiscal policy changed forever in 1971 when nixon took us off the gold standard
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