Zillow to stop flipping homes, loses more than $550M, lays off 25% of staff • Hacker News Board

Re: Zillow to stop flipping homes, loses more than $550M, lays off 25% of staff

#471

Post by justinpombrio » Fri, Nov 05, 2021, 6:40 PM UTC

KennyBlanken wrote: post #293

justinpombrio wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Despite maybe seeming like a useless middleman, the reason market makers can exist is because they provide a valuable service to the buyer and the seller. Well, and also because it's illegal in some states to buy directly from a car manufacturer, so you're forced to go to a dealership whether they provide value or not. Would eBay and Amazon be considered market makers, as they pair up buyers and sellers?

You're not forced to buy a car from a dealer; manufacturers are forced to sell new cars through dealers in order to guarantee owners have somewhere to go for service and parts. Back in the early days of the auto industry car companies sometimes existed just long enough to sell some crappy cars and fold before angry customers with defective cars came calling. That's why the laws around manufacturers having dealers exi…

How would forcing new car sales to go through dealerships prevent Tesla from making its parts rare and expensive? Wouldn't all Tesla parts come from Tesla anyways, and just go through the chain Tesla->dealership->consumer, instead of Tesla->consumer?

(In case it's not clear, I'm legitimately curious and know basically nothing about dealerships.)

Re: Zillow to stop flipping homes, loses more than $550M, lays off 25% of staff

#472

Post by trident5000 » Fri, Nov 05, 2021, 6:47 PM UTC

oarabbus_ wrote: post #442

trident5000 wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where is this data coming from? Thats simply not true. The dot com bubble, housing bubble, crypto bubbles were all retail.

Where is this data coming from? Almost nothing you said is true or perhaps you don't actually understand what retail traders are. Retail traders, essentially by definition, do not have sufficient capital to cause large asset bubbles. Once an individual's net worth exceeds a threshold (generally enough to where their purchases or sales affect the spreads and liquidity of the underlying market) they are not considered…

Im sorry but everything you wrote is just incorrect. The notion that retail cannot and has not caused bubbles in the past is asinine and your explanations of past bubbles are just factually wrong. Anyone in 2001 remembers their barber telling them which tech stocks they were invested in. The housing market was clear cut retail debt in 2007. And the entire crypto thing is retail. Blackrock is not invested in Bitcoin. You sound so confident but are just so wrong.

Re: Zillow to stop flipping homes, loses more than $550M, lays off 25% of staff

#473

Post by oarabbus_ » Fri, Nov 05, 2021, 8:41 PM UTC

trident5000 wrote: post #472

oarabbus_ wrote: post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where is this data coming from? Almost nothing you said is true or perhaps you don't actually understand what retail traders are. Retail traders, essentially by definition, do not have sufficient capital to cause large asset bubbles. Once an individual's net worth exceeds a threshold (generally enough to where their purchases or sales affect the spreads and liquidity of the underlying market) they are not considered…

Im sorry but everything you wrote is just incorrect. The notion that retail cannot and has not caused bubbles in the past is asinine and your explanations of past bubbles are just factually wrong. Anyone in 2001 remembers their barber telling them which tech stocks they were invested in. The housing market was clear cut retail debt in 2007. And the entire crypto thing is retail. Blackrock is not invested in Bitcoin.…

You need to read your last sentence out loud, to yourself, while looking in the mirror. You gave... an anecdote of a barber as proof? 2001 was caused by investment banks, venture capitalists, and changes in overnight repo lending. Not some folks each with an extra twenty grand chatting with his barber.

You're embarrassing yourself at this point between the barber and stating housing was "clear cut retail debt" in 2007 when it was actually a trillion dollar derivatives market that caused the bubble/crash, significantly driven by predatory/abusive from the mortgage lending side? Where do you think retail got all the money for the houses? "the entire crypto _thing_ is retail" uh, no, it's not. Tesla bought over a billion in bitcoin earlier this year, and large investment banks opened crypto desks early this year. And bringing up companies like Blackrock(?) which I didn't mention, oh my you are all over the place. Grayscale is not Blackrock... Can you present any evidence at all that retail has caused historical asset bubbles?

Sorry, you're just straight making things up and have a very poor or nonexistent understanding of markets. I won't waste my time here any longer.

Re: Zillow to stop flipping homes, loses more than $550M, lays off 25% of staff

#474

Post by trident5000 » Fri, Nov 05, 2021, 9:02 PM UTC

oarabbus_ wrote: post #473

trident5000 wrote: post #472

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Im sorry but everything you wrote is just incorrect. The notion that retail cannot and has not caused bubbles in the past is asinine and your explanations of past bubbles are just factually wrong. Anyone in 2001 remembers their barber telling them which tech stocks they were invested in. The housing market was clear cut retail debt in 2007. And the entire crypto thing is retail. Blackrock is not invested in Bitcoin.…

You need to read your last sentence out loud, to yourself, while looking in the mirror. You gave... an anecdote of a barber as proof? 2001 was caused by investment banks, venture capitalists, and changes in overnight repo lending. Not some folks each with an extra twenty grand chatting with his barber. You're embarrassing yourself at this point between the barber and stating housing was "clear cut retail debt" in 200…

Well you’re very dramatic and passionate but still very incorrect. The underlying housing market rise and collapse was from retail speculation, period. Sure they borrowed from banks but they still did the borrowing and actions. And who cares what the derivatives did in terms of diagnosing the underlying cause which was retail speculation. Wall street had a hand in causing the severity of the collapse theres no doubt about that, but they didnt drive the foundational bubble directly, only indirectly. The point is retail stupidity causes foundational bubbles. Derivatives made things worse but they were...derivatives, they're called that for a reason dimwit. And who cares about relatively small tesla position and “crypto trading desks” which have no permanent exposure. Thats absolutely nothing in the 2 trillion retail crypto environment. Crypto is retail driven regardless if its a big or small investor. Its not proper institutions buying. Please get real on this because you sound like a clown. I think part of the issue is you cant distinguish between retail and institutions. Retail doesnt become institutional just because they have a lot of cash/assets, rich people are still retail unless its a formal family office of which most people do not have (and even then Id say it more of a formality and still retail).

Re: Zillow to stop flipping homes, loses more than $550M, lays off 25% of staff

#475

Post by oarabbus_ » Fri, Nov 05, 2021, 9:48 PM UTC

trident5000 wrote: post #474

oarabbus_ wrote: post #473

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need to read your last sentence out loud, to yourself, while looking in the mirror. You gave... an anecdote of a barber as proof? 2001 was caused by investment banks, venture capitalists, and changes in overnight repo lending. Not some folks each with an extra twenty grand chatting with his barber. You're embarrassing yourself at this point between the barber and stating housing was "clear cut retail debt" in 200…

Well you’re very dramatic and passionate but still very incorrect. The underlying housing market rise and collapse was from retail speculation, period. Sure they borrowed from banks but they still did the borrowing and actions. And who cares what the derivatives did in terms of diagnosing the underlying cause which was retail speculation. Wall street had a hand in causing the severity of the collapse theres no doubt…

>Retail doesnt become institutional just because they have a lot of cash/assets, rich people are still retail

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/h/hnwi.asp

No, you're wrong on this and basically every single other statement you made. High net worth individuals are typically considered separate from retail traders, and yes, just because they have a lot of cash/assets. Part of the reason I kept saying [institutions OR high-net-worth individuals]. I didn't think that was such a challenging concept.

> Derivatives made things worse but they were...derivatives, they're called that for a reason dimwit.

>Please get real on this because you sound like a clown.

Real classy. Well at least I know now you were here just to be pompous and find a way to broadcast your lack of understanding of the market.

Re: Zillow to stop flipping homes, loses more than $550M, lays off 25% of staff

#476

Post by CRConrad » Sun, Nov 07, 2021, 1:18 AM UTC

iab wrote: post #134

tomcam wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel pretty smart because I immediately found that same book on eBay for only $8 million

Textbook arbitrage - congrats on the fortune

How do you know it was a textbook?