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Tesla’s headquarters will move to Austin

kxan.com

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Re: Tesla’s headquarters will move to Austin

#471

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The public schools aren’t pitiful at all. California has great schools.

If we are judging by one completely objective measure (high school graduation rates) California is currently the lowest-ranked state in the country: https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/high-school...

By that website, the lowest ranked state is California (83% graduation rate), the second lowest ranked state is...Texas (84% graduation rate). So...California is slightly worse than Texas on schooling?

I wonder if something else is going on for California and Texas to rank behind Mississippi, Alabama, and Louisiana? I'd bet that the issue with the standard of measure, not the actual quality of education.

Re: Tesla’s headquarters will move to Austin

#472
post #210
post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Property taxes are higher than California, right? I can't find the source handy at the moment, but I've heard that a house in Austin that looks like a couple hundred grand cheaper than an equivalent house in California for the listing isn't actually any cheaper when you factor in the increased taxes and potentially other costs I'm not aware of.

Property tax is higher but there is no state income tax. Also, property tax increase rates are significantly higher as compared to California. Austin is also growing very fast and is quickly turning into the sprawl that I have always associated more with Dallas and Houston. Financially speaking, either place may turn out advantageous depending on your house's price and income. CA (Bay Area) has a lot of other positiv…

> Property tax is higher but there is no state income tax.

I do wonder how much this affects salaries, though. Do employers in states with lower or no income taxes tend to pay worse for the same job than employers in states with higher income taxes?

Re: Tesla’s headquarters will move to Austin

#473
post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good luck finding a million dollar house in the Bay Area. And TX has a sales tax of 6.25%, while SF is 9.25%. And no state income tax in TX. It’s not even close.

That's a state sales tax of 6.25%. Austin and Dallas are at a minimum of 8.25%, for example. Though if you're in a specialized planning district, you can be looking at sales taxes of 10%+. Cities have their own sales tax. And so can school districts (and they can have their own property taxes, too). And sure, you're right, there's not much housing under $1M in the Bay Area. That doesn't change the fact that a $1M hom…

OP was referring to sales taxes in TX in general, not the highest cities, but point taken.

And sure, property taxes for a $1M home in TX is the same as a $2M house in SF, but that's a mansion in TX and a 2 bedroom apartment in SF. You get way more for your money.

And google tells me that TX does cap property tax increases. Not like Prop 13, but we all agree Prop 13 is terrible, right?

And everyone is ignoring the state income tax which is 9.3% in the $60 to $300k bracket (and goes up to 13.3%). So if you’re making $250k, that’s saving of $20k alone, which is about the property tax in TX.

It’s not even a close comparison in terms of the tax burden between the two.

Re: Tesla’s headquarters will move to Austin

#474
post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google maps says downtown Austin to Giga Texas is 17 miles, 24 minutes. I don't know what traffic is like in Austin but I imagine it's not nearly as bad as the bay area. I think a 25-30 min commute is pretty reasonable and most people would happily take that for much cheaper housing. The big difference is that in Austin you have the option to commute a bit for much cheaper housing. But in the bay area you could be co…

Traffic in Austin is insane. Legit insane. Definitely comparable to the Bay Area if not worse. And there is absolutely no transit alternative comparable to BART. There is a morning and evening train, but it's really only effective if you live and work exactly on the stops.

As someone that lived in the Bay Area for over 20 years and is now living near Austin, traffic in Austin is nowhere near close to that of the Bay Area. I live 25 miles outside Austin and be downtown in < 40 minutes during rush hour.

Re: Tesla’s headquarters will move to Austin

#475
post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, to be fair, 78725 is effectively the middle of nowhere in Austin. It makes sense if Musk's goal was to choose a fairly undeveloped exurb, but the gigafactory is as close to Manor and Webberville as it is to central Austin. I know Fremont is suburban, but it's a well incorporated suburb to both SF, Oakland and San Jose. 78725 is on the opposite side of Austin from most of the fancy neighborhoods.

Google maps says downtown Austin to Giga Texas is 17 miles, 24 minutes. I don't know what traffic is like in Austin but I imagine it's not nearly as bad as the bay area. I think a 25-30 min commute is pretty reasonable and most people would happily take that for much cheaper housing. The big difference is that in Austin you have the option to commute a bit for much cheaper housing. But in the bay area you could be co…

I lived and worked for six months in the Cupertino area for a contract job at Apple. My wife and I moved to Austin in 2006.

Traffic in Austin is weird. There are some places where it’s literally the worst in the nation — I-35 is the most congested interstate in the nation, and the most congested part of I-35 starts just above Austin and ends just south of Austin. I-35 is more or less congested pretty much around the clock.

But if you live closer in, and you’re traveling further out, then you can go counter flow, and it might not be too bad, depending on where you start and where you end.

I can say the same is true for Cupertino. My commute there started on Stevens Creek Road, where it crossed 280 and went west on Stephen’s Creek Road and ended when I got to Bubb Road, just east of where Stevens Creek Road crossed 85. If you can carefully pick your starting and ending points, the commute isn’t so bad.

But I was a contractor. I was getting paid way more than the employees. At the time my contract was up, I calculated that if they were going to offer me a job, they’d have to offer me at least $250k per year plus bonuses and stock, just to let me keep renting that same one bedroom apartment. And nobody but executives were making that kind of money at that time. Meanwhile, my wife stayed here in Austin, with our cats and our house, and we were still making house payments as well — and my 1BR apartment out there cost way more than our 4BR house here.

Getting back to the traffic here in Austin, 360 can be a parking lot if you’re going the wrong direction at the wrong time. So can Mopac. And both are still better than I-35. And that’s really it for major north-south commuting options. The 130 toll road on the far eastern sides of town just isn’t an option for most people. As fast as it is, it would take far too long to get over there, go north or south by however much you need, and get back, compared to just staying on the parking lot you’re already on.

So, the key will be to choose housing that is close to the office, so that you can avoid most of the commute in the first place.

And housing costs is one area in which Austin fortunately still can’t compare to the Bay Area. As much as I hate how much housing costs have gone up and that my wife and I are now effectively locked into our house because we can’t find a place we could afford to buy within a 200 mile radius for what we would get for this house, our housing costs are still way, way below that in the Bay Area.

And yes, we still hate all the jokers coming in from California who are gladly dropping millions of bucks to buy up houses that just a few years ago were only worth a few hundred thousand.

Thanks for visiting, but Austin is full. Yankee go home, please.

Re: Tesla’s headquarters will move to Austin

#476

What I'm really curious about is what happens to Austin (and to a lesser extent, Atlanta, Raleigh, Denver, SLC etc). Does Austin become the next Bay Area/next Seattle? Crazy high housing prices, and high homelessness/crime? If so, how long does that take, and what happens to native Austinites? If not, what prevents history from repeating itself?

Homelessness isn’t really caused by housing prices, people just move to worse places or get roommates. Crime definitely isn’t caused by housing prices, it’s plunged as housing prices have soared over the past 30 years

That correlation analysis is not good, you've got N=1 there and an astronomical number of confounders. A better analysis would be to look at inter-city or inter-municipality variability in crime and correlate that with the cross-section of housing price changes. You'll have a rich N=50 to N=5000 dataset.

I don't agree with your assertion that homelessness isn't caused in part by house prices. That seems unintuitive to me. Yes some people will get roommates, but what about people that already had roommates and were barely meeting rent? Some of them will have the foresight to get up and move interstate before they get wiped out, but there's frictions and costs associated and not everyone will succeed.

Re: Tesla’s headquarters will move to Austin

#477
post #318
post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The traffic situation is already pretty bad in that area, seemingly deliberately so. That is the case even during the pandemic, I can only imagine how bad it is when _nobody_ is remote. It seems that progressive Austin wants everyone to move to the city and give up their cars, which is not a realistic thing to do for most people in TX because it's not built for such lifestyle. I have no other plausible explanation. S…

Terrible traffic is the result of a city wanting everyone to use cars, rather than the opposite. Slow, low traffic car trips is the sign that the city wants people to not drive. Moving to a non car centric city means you don't need a car for your trips. The lifestyle is to stop having a car, because it's unnecessary

SF seems to be telling me to give up my car, but that's a non-starter unless Muni gets about 500% better (higher frequency, more coverage, faster routes).

Even in Manhattan, where transit is pretty decent, the only reason why transit is faster (sometimes) is because traffic is terrible all the time.

Re: Tesla’s headquarters will move to Austin

#478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wonder if it had anything to do with this… https://mobile.twitter.com/unusual_whales/status/14462517624...

A childish Twitter exchange from May 2020? I doubt it.

For anyone else I'd be skeptical.

Re: Tesla’s headquarters will move to Austin

#479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're not the only company in the region: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicon_Hills

It was the example used and the list from that website its tough to tell which companies were satellite offices vs which were corporate/research HQ. Not trying to belittle Austin - I know they have a tech scene - and I know every city is trying to capitalize on marketing their city as the next silicon valley (which is such a ridiculous thing to do for an incredibly long list of reasons).

I think Apple’s campus here is already bigger than anything they’ve got anywhere else, short of the giant UFO in Cupertino, and they’re still planning on expanding.

Amazon is here, and again they have a number of buildings in the Domain area. I think it might be their second or third largest site, behind HQ and possibly HQ2.

Of course Dell is here. Google doesn’t have much of a presence, yet.

There are lots of other companies that have massive presence here in Austin. Tesla is highly unlikely to be the biggest.

Re: Tesla’s headquarters will move to Austin

#480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd be careful about directly comparing prices, real estate taxes (by rate) in Texas are significantly higher than in California. They might be overall lower given that the real estate prices are cheaper, but Texas is #6 in the country for real estate taxes while California is #34[1]. [1] https://taxfoundation.org/high-state-property-taxes-2021/

"Effective" rates. It accounts for prop 13, so you aren't getting .7% if you're buying a brand new home. My mom has a million dollar home in California and pays around 1.5k/year in property taxes because she's owned it since the 70s.

Whereas we paid about eight times that last year, and our house isn’t valued as high.

EDIT: and we’ve owned this house since 2008.

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