I think a better solution would be to ban algorithmic media distribution. Let people post whatever they want on YouTube. If there wasn’t a toxic engagement algorithm radicalizing people this wouldn’t be a problem. That would kill the social media business model, which is an added bonus IMO.
YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content
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Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content
#472Age old follow-up question. Who decides what anti-vaccine content is? Who is going to draw the fine line? How simple (i.e. black and white) is to make this distinction? Do you trust that person / entity making these decisions for you and your peers? But even without defending free speach, looks to me that when you start censoring you just create multiple new problems with zero solution. So even from a design point of…
What's the difference between whispering "fire" in a crowded movie theater vs. yelling it out loud? - is it simply the volume of ones voice? Might some intangible like intent have something to do with it? How do you even go about quantifying that? What if everyone laughs at your outburst? What if they trample each other to death?
I feel as though this crowd gets wrapped around the axel on these kinds of questions - anything with too much ambiguity that can't be code golfed into the tersest possible formal logic statement.
When Justice Stewart attempted to define what "hardcore pornography" actual __is__ he simply wrote "I know it when I see it" (1964 Jacobellis v. Ohio).
That's about as good as one can do in some cases.
Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content
#473How will we tell if it works? A decrease in anti-vax sentiment and an uptick in vaccine take-up? How will we tell that it was due to YouTube?
What if it doesn’t move the needle at all (pun intended) - does it mean YouTube is much less influential than we (and they, apparently) think? Or that they waited too long and the anti-vax message had already embedded?
It’ll be very interesting to watch.
Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content
#474The article is pay-walled to me. But I am interested - do they mention where the line for being "anti-vaccine" currently is? For example - is someone who is making a video about why he/she will not be taking a 3rd booster shot anti-vaccine and therefore banned?
Anything short of complete 100% vaccine fanaticism could and probably will be construed as anti-vaccine when useful.
Source: downvotes on this post.
Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content
#475Of course it will. Welcome to the new propaganda. Same as the old propaganda. Free speech is the act of standing up for those who you disagree with simply because you believe they have the right to be heard. In today's world of "woke" content creators, everyone seems to miss this point. What started out as fairly clear cut issues such as racism and homophobia has now bled into grey areas around vaccines and gain of f…
I know HN is always on a hair trigger to call out free speech issues, but "youtube does a poor job of curating covid information" is the expected outcome. You don't need to postulate a conspiracy or malicious actor to explain the expected outcome.
So it's kind of hard to take stuff like this seriously:
> ...we're not allowed to discuss whether GoF research is too risky?"
Of course you are. Youtube middle-management aren't the arbiters of what is and is not acceptable scientific or medical information. If they ever were, that would be a crisis worthy of outrage.
Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content
#476I think we have to ask if this won't have a chilling effect on open discussion by moderate voices. I'm subscribed to the channel of an M.D. on YouTube who discusses COVID-19, vaccines, etc. He is very careful to (repeatedly) point out that he is vaccinated, he has personally vaccinated hundreds of patients, he encourages everyone to speak to their doctor and follow their recommendations, believing that the vaccine is…
Yes, making claims about vaccines with without basis is "anti-vax"
Is somebody who makes the claim that vaccines are better than natural immunity actually "anti-vax"?
Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content
#477Anti-vaccers have limited amount of claims. Instead of shutting them down and feeding into conspiracy if governments and big corps are so concerned they should make web sites where they disprove said claims with valid data in a way understandable by mere mortals. For interested there can be also list of references for further reading. Youtube and the likes are then free to promote / put on first page headlines from this websites.
Instead what I see when opening youtube (I am Canadian) is the pic of Theresa Tam: our Chief Public Health Officer. She is known to change her opinion every other day to the point that whatever she says can be ignored - she'll come up with something different tomorrow.
Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content
#478My wife is very vaccine hesitant, and every time they make a move like this to block content or take it down, it only strengthens her position. She thinks they’re taking it down because they don’t want people to know the truth. The only thing worse than bad ideas is the suppression of bad ideas. It’s tragic that we knew this at some point, but are going to have to figure it all back out again the hard way.
==She thinks they’re taking it down because they don’t want people to know the truth.== Sounds like she has already made up her mind, in which case I’m not sure it matters if the content is moderated or not. It’s possible she will find whatever reinforces the decision she’s already made. ==The only thing worse than bad ideas is the suppression of bad ideas.== This sounds good, but is it true? The bad idea exists toda…
> Sounds like she has already made up her mind
If that's the case, did she make up her mind before or after consuming the anti-vaccine content?
In my experience, most people who are hesitant about the vaccine are that way because they distrust the government. The anti-vaccine content didn't cause their hesitancy. They only consumed it because it confirmed their pre-existing bias.
If the anti-vaccine content isn't the underlying cause of people not wanting to get the vaccine, censoring that content will not fix anything. I know many people who, like OP's wife, simply see the censorship as further justification for their pre-existing bias. We are likely killing free speech with nothing to show for it.
Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content
#479The problem is that questions about the vaccine are being labeled as anti-vaccine. Real data about the side effects of the vaccine constitutes science not anti-vax propaganda. It is distressing that supporters of informed consent are being lumped in with QAnon.
Maybe YouTube isn’t the best place to discuss results of scientific inquiry?
If you're not already subscribed to Two Minute Papers you oughta go check them out
Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content
#480Anti-vaccers have limited amount of claims. Instead of shutting them down and feeding into conspiracy if governments and big corps are so concerned they should make web sites where they disprove said claims with valid data in a way understandable by mere mortals. For interested there can be also list of references for further reading. Youtube and the likes are then free to promote / put on first page headlines from this websites.