Reading this I was thinking I would wake up tomorrow and go back to using `docker-machine` and a separate VM for development on my work mac. Interesting timing that they started the work to deprecate/remove `docker-machine` three weeks ago: https://github.com/docker/roadmap/issues/245
Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies
471–480 of 597 posts
Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies
#472So is Docker going to now maintain all the base images themselves or do they rely on the community to provide those for free? Also, announced on 31.08, effective 31.08 (albeit grace period…)
I think you wrote the announced and effective dates twice. Effective date being 31 of January as far as I can tell. The whole point of Docker monetizing Docker Desktop is so that they can continue to be funded to maintain the base images themselves. That's the primary sell point of DockerHub.
Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies
#473My team and I use Docker Desktop and I don't think anyone signs in. We just use it to install the docker cli tools on the Mac. We're a small dev team, but it seems like nothing is changing at all for those of us who don't sign in to Docker.
It's free anyway if you sign in and your company is less than 250 employees and less than $10mil in revenue
Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies
#474Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yup, this is the concern. Having been kindly asked by Oracle to remove virtualbox extensions, this sort of gotcha/conditional pricing feels dangerous
The big thing for me is the question of the future: they say they currently won't be predatory about it[1] and I have no reason to doubt that the people saying that are being completely honest, but we don't know who will be working there in the future or where the next acquisition/merger will take them. Without a contract, it's hard to disagree with the policy types who are going to ask what protects the organization…
Docker is a company that won’t exist in a few years, so a promise of leniency now means nothing.
When they are merged into some other big company, that company will look to milk the cow by going after license compliance. It happens every time.
Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies
#475Earlier quoted context omitted.
> requires some juggling of licenses with associated turn-around times This! I've always said that a bit reason for FLOSS to win over the internet server-side is because scaling fast and juggling livenses is just too hard. Especially with the prying eyes of Oracle/MSFT/etc's powerful legal teams and hidden "phone home" code. Going with a LAMP stack was just to simplest way to keep moving at speed.
What would have happened if Microsoft had put some clause in volume licenses that said "you can use a system unlicensed for up to 30 days before paying for a license". Then engineering can spin up loads of instances to test stuff and scale fast with minimal hassle, and it'll be the purchasing team playing catchup later, no longer in the decisionmaking path.
People do that with EAs. Once they figure out that it’s happening, they have various means to detect it.
Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies
#476You can use a remote docker host pretty easily. I've been playing with qemu on my mac since I read the announcement regarding docker for mac no longer being free (as in beer). I have port 5555 forwarded to 22 on the qemu vm so I can ssh into it. You can use whatever you want for virtual machines of course. Qemu seems nice these days but requires a bit of fiddling to get working. Virtualbox or vmware are probably easier. And this works just as well with cloud based virtual machines or any kind of remote host.
Assuming you have docker and ssh running on your remote host:
# point docker on your mac to your remote machine
export DOCKER_HOST=ssh://dude@localhost:5555
# run nginx or whatever you want
docker run -p 8080:80 nginx
# forward the port locally
ssh -L 8080:localhost:8080 -p 5555 jilles@localhost
# open http://localhost:8080 in your browser
Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies
#477Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've been fortunate enough to work at companies where engineers were trusted to make small purchasing decisions. It works well for a while, but eventually everyone accumulates a lot of random recurring charges and the company cracks down. $21 is nothing for a one-time spend. $21 per month per employee is now $252/year per employee, but now you also need someone managing all of these licenses and accounting. Every new…
Someone making $250k/year shouldn't think twice dropping $21/month on a tool that truly makes them more productive. A year or two ago I bought a personal license to Ubuntu FIPS after being urgently asked to debug an issue w/ Python's OpenSSL bindings. Unsurprisingly it turned out that my company had an enterprise license, and had I known whom to contact (which I didn't), I could have gotten a license key in a couple…
It's not about $x a month, it's about the friction of dropping any money at all. It could be 10c/year and still annoy everyone, because now they have to go through a procurement process, find someone with a company credit card, wrangle with reimbursement forms, etc.
Docker arguably should be charging more for it. The friction between $0 and $21/month is higher than the friction between $21/month and $60/month in a lot of ways.
Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies
#478So many people in this thread don’t understand how enterprise decisions get made. The business license costs $21/month, probably less in reality. Do you really think that businesses are going to jeopardize the workflows of their $250k/year assets over a very core piece of software for $250/year? Any alternative has switching costs and risks. Companies will just pay this. I see so many people saying “just do these 10…
Many engineers at large companies won't want to bother dealing with the headaches around licensing software and spending money, whether it's $2/mo or $21/mo or $200/mo. If it's a core part of my job and the best option available, it'd be worth it, but if there's any reasonable alternative, I'll go download that today instead of wading through all of the lawyers and approvals and compliance to use something slightly b…
Even when the purchase process has been streamlined it's still a headache for a piece of software I might only use 1-2 times a year.
Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies
#479So many people in this thread don’t understand how enterprise decisions get made. The business license costs $21/month, probably less in reality. Do you really think that businesses are going to jeopardize the workflows of their $250k/year assets over a very core piece of software for $250/year? Any alternative has switching costs and risks. Companies will just pay this. I see so many people saying “just do these 10…
Yeah that's great in theory. In practice you have to go to the official route (tm). Here's some of my experiences:
1) Internship at a well known tech corporation. I was on a project that would accelerate the debugging and diagnostic of a machine the whole factory depended on; tl;dr I was making an app to replace an overgrown Excel sheet. To do that we used an opensource library but the catch was that the maintainer made its money by placing the documentation under a paywall. At some point the project was going well but the leftovers from Google Code could not do anymore. So it took two months (TWO MONTHS!) to do a $15 USD one time payment with the company's credit card. Apparently the process took longer due to the fact we had to go through PayPal.
2) Another multi billion corporation, less big but still multinational. They spent hours and lots of money on internal propaganda to promote their "core values"; which of course included "agility". We wanted to buy a commercial code analysis tool to save time during code reviews and increase code quality of a code base where ~30 devs worked. No brainier right? We had the R&D department's VP's OK to buy the damn thing and ask for forgiveness to the mother ship later. After 6 months our team leader was still receiving calls and and form to fill. "Do you really need this? Did you think about other products? Did you have the OK from this person thousand of miles away and this other person who speaks in a very broken English?" Using the company's internal organism and salary tables we estimated that during those six months they have wasted about 5 years of licensing in salary.
Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies
#480So many people in this thread don’t understand how enterprise decisions get made. The business license costs $21/month, probably less in reality. Do you really think that businesses are going to jeopardize the workflows of their $250k/year assets over a very core piece of software for $250/year? Any alternative has switching costs and risks. Companies will just pay this. I see so many people saying “just do these 10…
What companies are offering $250k/year for engineers?
Pretty much any company operating in a major US city.