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Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone?

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone?

#471

Post by syshum »

eropple wrote: post #228
RHSeeger wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without trying to counteract your points about the pay/work/parttime/etc.... It's worth noting that a large number of restaurant owners make very little money. The margins/profits in that industry are razor thin. So the owner making less wouldn't be helpful, or even an option for many of them.

Then shouldn't they be working more personally? Or shouldn't they no longer be in business? (And yeah, I'm well aware how much many small restaurant owners work. See door number two.) People around here talk a lot about unsustainable business models. I don't think it's really any better if it's offloading its unsustainability onto its workforce, which is what's being described here. From where I stand, as somebody wh…

>>>that there isn't actually a need for everyone to work to make the whole thing "go"

So what is the proposal? Pay people to stay home forever? Who determines who gets a free ride paid for by productive people, and who has to be the ones that provide that free ride to others.

be sure to sign me up for the free ride, but I sure as hell do not want to work 50+ hours a week so other people can play Call of Duty all day.... I would rather let other people work and I play Call of Duty

And their lies the rub / problem with socialism... If everyone can have a free ride no one works

Re: Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone?

#472

Post by syshum »

tzs wrote: post #221
m0llusk wrote: post #88

It is strange that the top known factors for this are not even mentioned in this or other similar news stories. First, closing of schools caused large numbers of women to leave the workforce in order to care for children. Until schools are fully open and day care is available those women will probably not be going back to work. Second, all markets are cultivated things. Employers in the most troubled sectors have rec…

> It is strange that the top known factors for this are not even mentioned in this or other similar news stories. First, closing of schools caused large numbers of women to leave the workforce in order to care for children. I'm a bit skeptical of that explanation in the US because schools close for 3 months every summer, without an accompanying large number of women quitting their jobs.

Exactly..

I think I stopped having a daycare by the age of 10 or 11... I grew up as a Latch key kid...

I would see my parents at Dinner Time, then Dusk where my 2 curfews. other than that I was outside 90% of the time. of course this was before Internet, Cell Phones, etc... I did not get dial up internet until I was like 16-17 (which by then i was driving so....) , and broadband when I was 18 or 19... Today i talk to parents where they have 24/7 electronic tracking of their children every movements, kids well in to their teens still having babysitters or not being left lone...

Society has grown extremely risk adverse, likely if parents tried Latch key kid at the age I was Child Protective services would be called... In General the reaction to COVID has highlight just how risk adverse society is over all, there are other warning signs, but it has really been a eye opener for me...

Re: Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone?

#473

Post by France_is_bacon »

I just want to know when I can go back to a $25,000 job with no insurance or benefits, so that the top 5% that own 85% of the wealth of the richest nation in the world, can make even more billions of dollars. Who wouldn't want that? Why is everyone so lazy, why doesn't everyone go back to making the top 10-20% of the elite more money?

From the 1940's to 1985, the top tax bracket was 70% to 90%. We need to go back to that again.

The wealthiest will stop at nothing to crush the American worker. If you are reading this, are you going to take it?

The wealthiest keep saying that they wish that they could pay more taxes. That's what they say. But when San Francisco passed a ONE PERCENT tax on the wealthiest, to help with the homeless problem, the wealthiest went out of their collective minds. All you read about was how they were going to leave San Francisco and take jobs with them. Well, adios, motherf-ckers, to you and the horse you rode in on, and go move to Switzerland. Adios.

But, back to reality, it's too late. The wealthiest are already bribing all our government "leaders". The only option is not to go back to work.

Re: Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone?

#474

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

foobiekr wrote: post #443
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey, try being over 50. I just gave up, and retired early. Best decision I ever made. I'm working for free, with NPOs, and it's been a joy. The worst part, for me, has been the naked contempt and disrespect. I don't expect to be worshipped, but raw insults are beyond the pale. It's -literally- like a hazing ritual. With all the news about "frat boy culture," I think I see where it comes from. I don't think it's just…

How do you find NPOs that aren’t ego-driven sweatshops? I’ve been pondering doing this for a few years but the reality of many nonprofits is that they are quite exploitative of their employees and volunteers. I’d happily do net and server admin for a low overhead background task but not for a ceo ego org.

I've not encountered them.

If I'm not getting paid, I can vote with my feet.

If I take a job, and take money, then I am bound by Integrity and Personal Honor, to do all in my power to complete the contracted tasks; and to do so, well.

If I am working on a volunteer basis, then, if they become douches, I pack my bags and leave. I don't give a rat's ass about prestige and todger-measuring contests. I do the work, because I find it personally fulfilling. I don't act like a prima donna, but I also don't brook nonsense. They figure that out, fairly quickly.

But that hasn't happened. The sheer value of the Quality of the work I do -I am not exaggerating- is something most Fortune 500 companies don't get. I think that this gets past the egos.

I've found that I'm actually treated with Respect, and I don't have to arm-wrestle insecure managers for every damn thing.

Also, I have been working with NPOs for 40 years. It's only been the last 4, that it has been full-time.

Re: Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone?

#475

Post by imbnwa »

RhysU wrote: post #464
antoniuschan99 wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I took a course on Plato’s republic back in school. Our class conclusion was that nothing has changed in the last 2000 years in terms of society/issues since that book was written!

"Progress" is a Western myth. Perhaps "progress" is The Western Myth. Things simply change. TIL from my Classical Archaeology professor.

You can't say this kinda stuff on HN since too many people associate their job with creating said progress. Michel Foucault spent his whole life making this exact argument - things simply change.

Re: Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone?

#476

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

bserge wrote: post #426
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey, try being over 50. I just gave up, and retired early. Best decision I ever made. I'm working for free, with NPOs, and it's been a joy. The worst part, for me, has been the naked contempt and disrespect. I don't expect to be worshipped, but raw insults are beyond the pale. It's -literally- like a hazing ritual. With all the news about "frat boy culture," I think I see where it comes from. I don't think it's just…

I've observed this and it's just appalling. It doesn't matter that 50 year olds can do the same work just as well, no, management seems to want freaking Energizer bunnies on their team. Nevermind that they don't actually get more work done (and more importantly, better ), it's just about being "passionate" about doing the same shit every day. Wtf.

It's not just better. It's shipping. I've done that, since I was 24 years old. I literally have the manual that I wrote, accompanying the first professional engineering project that I did, after my first promotion to a salaried engineer, from a bench tech.

When I read it, I am impressed, and it was done in 1987. It was an internal tool, that was used to test defense tech. I treated the project as if it was being delivered to the field, and lives depended on it. It was that much of an Honor for me to have the chance to do that work.

I am a high school dropout. I got a GED, and had to fight for everything I got. That means that I valued everything, and never treated it as "my due."

Every job that I have ever had, has been a Signal Honor. It has been a privilege, and a chance to learn more, and push my boundaries. Every team that I ever joined, was composed of people that were better than me, and had something to teach me. It was always an Honor to be admitted to their ranks.

I understood, from my very first assignment, that I needed to ship.

Shipping is what makes money. Shipping is what builds brands. Shipping is what the customer wants and needs.

Everything else is just a low SNR.

That's why I have always treated every single one of my projects as if it were a gift, given to me, and one that needs to be treated with Respect, Honor and Dignity. It needs to be done well, and it needs to be finished. I consider myself to be a craftsman, as well as an engineer. I won't design garbage, and I don’t want my work to be treated as garbage[0] (if I have any say in it -which has not always been the case).

I know that attitude sounds over-dramatic, ridiculous, and anachronistic, but it's the one I have. I'm not looking for work. I don't really have an investment in what people think about that, anymore. The people that matter, know me, and they know my work.

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rsZfcz3h1s

Re: Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone?

#477

Post by raydev »

m0llusk wrote: post #88

It is strange that the top known factors for this are not even mentioned in this or other similar news stories. First, closing of schools caused large numbers of women to leave the workforce in order to care for children. Until schools are fully open and day care is available those women will probably not be going back to work. Second, all markets are cultivated things. Employers in the most troubled sectors have rec…

Another aspect is that most of the people in working low wage jobs who may have been living on their own or with roommates eventually had to abandon them and move back in with their parents, or find more roommates.

The people who worked these jobs may simply be gone. And with COVID lingering, there's no reason to leave current stable living situations even if they're still relatively broke.

Re: Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone?

#478

Post by bsder »

nimbius wrote: post #214
m0llusk wrote: post #88

It is strange that the top known factors for this are not even mentioned in this or other similar news stories. First, closing of schools caused large numbers of women to leave the workforce in order to care for children. Until schools are fully open and day care is available those women will probably not be going back to work. Second, all markets are cultivated things. Employers in the most troubled sectors have rec…

Anecdotal but...can we mention burn-out? as a "blue collar" worker i dont think anyone mentions it enough. I have a coworker who left a 9-5 body shop making decent money as a painter for a medical billing job that was closer to her father in 2020. she came back to that body shop just two weeks ago because she was pulling non-stop mandatory overtime in a salary position that treated her like trash. she never even gave…

> these "hero" fields that exist as a sort of meat grinder during covid have chewed through all the social credit most people are willing to give them.

I really think people are underestimating this.

In the middle of this fiasco, who were going to be the people coming out and interacting with the service economy most?

That's right--the shittiest, most selfish, most ignorant dipshits. I have all manner of stories from restaurants that never had issues suddenly having to call the police regularly after the full lockdowns ended.

So, your already shitty service job just got its "shitty knob" turned up way past 11 because the shitty people are going out and the nice people are staying at home.

Is it any wonder the "service economy" workers just decided to bow out?

Re: Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone?

#479

Post by heavyset_go »

vladvasiliu wrote: post #392
6gvONxR4sf7o wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It tells me we need a higher minimum wage. No individual can raise prices without losing competitiveness, but clearly higher prices would fix some of these serious issues. A higher minimum wage would prevent the “they’ll just go next door” issue.

> No individual can raise prices without losing competitiveness, but clearly higher prices would fix some of these serious issues. A higher minimum wage would prevent the “they’ll just go next door” issue. That seems right on the face of it. But then there's another issue: are you sure that the same number of people would continue eating out? Personally, I wouldn't bet on it. I don't often eat out, mostly because it'…

> It's not clear to me that raising the minimum wage, and therefore the price of a restaurant meal

This study[1] specifically looks at the effect of raising the minimum wage on restaurant prices.

What they found is that increases of 10% to the minimum wage are correlated with only a 0.36% increase of prices, and minimum wage increases may cause some prices to decrease, too:

> Many business leaders fear that any increase in the minimum wage will be passed on to consumers through price increases thereby slowing spending and economic growth, but that may not be the case. New research shows that the pass-through effect on prices is fleeting and much smaller than previously thought.

> By looking at changes in restaurant food pricing during the period of 1978–2015, MacDonald and Nilsson find that prices rose by just 0.36 percent for every 10 percent increase in the minimum wage, which is only about half the size reported in previous studies. They also observe that small minimum wage increases do not lead to higher prices and may actually reduce prices. Furthermore, it is also possible that small minimum wage increases could lead to increased employment in low-wage labor market.

[1] https://www.upjohn.org/research-highlights/does-increasing-m...

Re: Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone?

#480

Post by is_d4ng_erect »

throwawayboise wrote: post #349
eropple wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then shouldn't they be working more personally? Or shouldn't they no longer be in business? (And yeah, I'm well aware how much many small restaurant owners work. See door number two.) People around here talk a lot about unsustainable business models. I don't think it's really any better if it's offloading its unsustainability onto its workforce, which is what's being described here. From where I stand, as somebody wh…

People need work to keep them occupied. It's built in to our psychology by evolution. We know that idle people cause most of the problems in society. So I do think there is a need for everyone to work to make the whole thing "go", if by "go" you mean have a peaceful, civilized way of living.

Wow, are you okay HackersNews…?
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