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I Will Never Use a Microsoft Account to Log Into My Own PC

extremetech.com

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Re: I Will Never Use a Microsoft Account to Log Into My Own PC

#471

Post by danhor »

arp242 wrote: post #329
BLKNSLVR wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Windows isn't anywhere near as ubiquitous as it used to be. Once W11 requires a MS login I'm not installing it for any friends or family - they're getting on the Linux express or working it out themselves. I won't be party to this BS, this isn't the future I wanted to facilitate.

Both Android and iOS require an account to be practically useful for most people, and have for years. Microsoft is "only" following suit, and I'm afraid that a bunch of hackers here aren't enough to stop the tide :-/

At least on Android, they're not really hiding the option of not using an account as opposed to what microsoft is doing. Probably because most people will use one anyway for the play store.

Re: I Will Never Use a Microsoft Account to Log Into My Own PC

#472

Post by dividedbyzero »

vel0city wrote: post #408
dividedbyzero wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are any of these freely sold to individuals, or do you only get them as part of larger deals?

Pro is sold to individuals and you can easily get a laptop with a Pro license from an OEM.

Seems like there's also Pro for Workstations. Also, full disk encryption seems to only be available in Pro?

Re: I Will Never Use a Microsoft Account to Log Into My Own PC

#473

Post by hilbert42 »

teh_klev wrote: post #238
Tepix wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, a few months ago Microsoft changed Windows 10 so that the only way to install it with a local account is to disconnect the LAN cable

I had to perform a fresh re-install on a laptop earlier this year and even had to go to the lengths of physically removing the WiFi card from the machine before I could get the local account option to appear in the installer. What an absolute fricken waste of time.

Right, we need laws to stop this practice. If, say, I bought a new laptop several years ago with Windows 10 on it and agreed to the terms and conditions at that time and Microsoft then increasingly tightens those rules with updates etc. then I'm forced to agree to the new terms that I now disagree with or otherwise I could potentially be in trouble. This ought to be a job for consumer law.

Moreover, MS is inexorably moving stuff, utilities etc, that were once on its website to its store that requires login for, it seems, similar reasons. Clearly, knowing exactly who we are has financial benefits for Microsoft or otherwise it wouldn't bother.

Re: I Will Never Use a Microsoft Account to Log Into My Own PC

#474

Post by gigel82 »

linker3000 wrote: post #407
aclelland wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You want an even darker pattern? Try requesting the windows telemetry data from a PC which isn't logged in through a MS account. You'll spend weeks going back and forth trying to explain to their support agents that you can't login to the website because you don't have an account. Frustrating doesn't begin to describe it. I've still not been able to get anything from them despite a 30 email chain.

Are you in the UK/EU? Hit MS with a subject access request (SAR) as per GDPR Article 15, and the clock starts ticking; the data processor (MS) must then provide all the personal data they hold on you, and other supplementary information. within one month (extendable by another two).

I'm curious what'll actually be in there; please do this and report back.

I keep hearing the line of MS's evil data collection to serve you ads and whatnot but I suspect the truth is much milder; they probably have mostly usage telemetry to drive their investment decisions and possibly perf / bugs because they fired their testing team.

Re: I Will Never Use a Microsoft Account to Log Into My Own PC

#475

Post by pmoriarty »

saul_goodman wrote: post #371
probably_wrong wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's how I lost my GMail account - they demanded a telephone number so I relented and gave them mine, but they refuse to accept it. They won't take my work number either.

Phone numbers have become the new SSN tied to your physical identity. In most cases you have provide extremely detailed personal info to get a working phone number. There are probably still some ways crafty folks can get a working phone number without it being tied to your physical identity, but you must go way out of your way to do so. Privacy and freedom of speech are dead, long live the constitution.

The saddest thing is that many HN readers (and the tech community in general) have been instrumental in privacy's demise.

Despite paying lip service to privacy, many people here still work on privacy-eroding companies and services.

How many people here work Facebook, Google, Microsoft, or LinkedIn, Palantir, etc... (not to mention less well-known names that still erode privacy).. probably a lot.

Many founders (another group heavily represented on HN) are just after their pot of gold at the end of the IPO, and will gleefully walk over as many users' backs as it takes.

In some ways worse, though, are the people who are intimately familiar with technology, and who are enabling the people at the top. These people all have a choice of who to work for and what to do. No one's holding a gun to their head making them work on tracking and spyware and user-disempowerment, and yet they do.

Re: I Will Never Use a Microsoft Account to Log Into My Own PC

#476

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

wbsss4412 wrote: post #458
AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Non-server Windows editions, at least before 10, had security updates for almost 10 years. And new software often continues to function on old versions of Windows for far longer.

I wasn’t trying to imply that Ubuntu has longer support than windows, only that it doesn’t constantly make breaking changes. If you want you can use it and update once every five years and have a fairly stable desktop.

Sure, if you don't count all the software that no longer has a package in the latest version's repo and therefore is no longer available. Oh and whatever features GNOME decided to remove this time.

Re: I Will Never Use a Microsoft Account to Log Into My Own PC

#477

Post by sounds »

arp242 wrote: post #329
BLKNSLVR wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Windows isn't anywhere near as ubiquitous as it used to be. Once W11 requires a MS login I'm not installing it for any friends or family - they're getting on the Linux express or working it out themselves. I won't be party to this BS, this isn't the future I wanted to facilitate.

Both Android and iOS require an account to be practically useful for most people, and have for years. Microsoft is "only" following suit, and I'm afraid that a bunch of hackers here aren't enough to stop the tide :-/

There's a solution I put out there for my non-technical friends. I just tell them to buy two Android devices.

Obviously with iOS this won't work, but then again, iOS devices aren't cheap enough for this to be a reasonable approach anyway.

Device #1: Buy the cheapest device you can. I give my friends specific recommendations. Invent a new burner gmail account for it. Install whatever you want off the Play Store - obviously, use all the normal caution to avoid any malware. Never put any personal info on it, so never put a SIM card in it, just connect over wifi.

Device #2: Buy a nice Android device. Never sign in. Put the SIM card in this one. Side load apps and update them by extracting the APK from device #1. Export your contacts from Google and load them manually (and save a backup). Access your email using IMAP from a third party app. Backup your photos using a third party app. The point is _not_ to use Google Pay, Google Assistant, and Google Cloud.

• Google Maps works without being signed in

• Google Play Store will update Google Maps (and the default apps on the device) without being signed in, but it does use dark patterns to try to get you to sign in

• Android OS updates will work without being signed in

It is more work, no question. It works for me. Your mileage may vary. Disclaimer that I'm posting in kind of a hurry, so I'll just admit the details here probably don't make sense.

Re: I Will Never Use a Microsoft Account to Log Into My Own PC

#478

Post by nickjj »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #394
nickjj wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Running native Linux for non-technical users ends up being a great move as long as the programs they want to run work on it. For example imagine a retired non-technical person who occasionally trades stocks. Even major trading platforms like Interactive Brokers have native Linux clients. Non-technical users want a stable system that doesn't constantly change. Windows loves to hit you with popup notices or UI changes…

> Non-technical users want a stable system that doesn't constantly change. ...and you're recommending Linux Desktop for that? An operating system famous for breaking compatibility with itself every 2 years or so? Not to mention between distros. I mean, I suppose you can just leave them on some arbitrary un-updated version of Ubuntu forever, but the same could be said for Windows 2000.

> I mean, I suppose you can just leave them on some arbitrary un-updated version of Ubuntu forever, but the same could be said for Windows 2000.

Certain programs they run won't work on old operating systems like Windows 7 or 2000 but they work on Windows 10 and Linux. Running an unmaintained old copy of Windows 7 would be pretty bad for someone non-technical because if they decide to ever go-to a questionable site of their choosing, chances are they will get themselves in trouble with a virus / malware.

You can run Xubuntu 20.04 LTS for a few years with unattended updates turned on so they get automated non-UI breaking security patches. Then when it goes EOL upgrade to the next LTS, or even turn on unattended upgrades too with a stipulation that something might change once every few years instead of twice a week. It's a really good environment IMO.

Re: I Will Never Use a Microsoft Account to Log Into My Own PC

#479

Post by amanzi »

w4rh4wk5 wrote: post #79

Fun fact, password for my Microsoft account sits in my password manager. If I can't log into my PC, I can't access that password. And no, I am not going to remember that, or change it to something simpler. (Yes I know about entropy and correct horse battery staple!)

One thing Microsoft does really well is passwordless logins. As long as you've set up MFA with the Microsoft Authenticator app, you won't need your Microsoft account password to log in ever again. Instead, when you log in, you receive a notification in your Authenticator app which lets you log in without a password.

Re: I Will Never Use a Microsoft Account to Log Into My Own PC

#480

Post by elliekelly »

elliekelly wrote: post #292
HeckFeck wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a shame to watch the decline of Windows. There isn't much I can recommend to non-technical users looking affordable computing relatively under their control. Manipulation and user hostility is unacceptable. Any of these possibilities would be nice: * The market presents a kinder (and equally-affordable x86) solution and users follow. * ReactOS lurches leaps and bounds ahead. * Microsoft realises this trajectory…

Why does Apple make it so difficult/borderline impossible to run MacOS on non-apple computers? Would it cut into their computer sales that significantly? I would imagine most people who want (and can afford) a Mac would still buy one.

It’s super disappointing to receive such hostile responses to a genuine question but I appreciate the two people who replied kindly.
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