America has a drinking problem • Hacker News Board

Re: America has a drinking problem

#471

Post by jaguar1878 » Wed, Jun 02, 2021, 1:54 AM UTC

ashtonkem wrote: post #378

zokula wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes, the pilgrims preferred beer over water because the water kept killing them. Drinking tea or beer was a matter of safety, not mere preference or addiction. That's a myth.

[Citation needed]

AskHistorians on reddit has put this very question into their "very frequently asked questions" due to its popularity, and there's a decent number of answers describing why its a myth:

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/7b8jea/is_it...

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/2bewpo/what_...

Re: America has a drinking problem

#472

Post by bumby » Wed, Jun 02, 2021, 1:55 AM UTC

bitexploder wrote: post #363

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If one drink/wk is noticeably affecting you then you're either a professional athlete who's got world class people monitoring their performance or you need to see a doctor. Edit: Assuming the standard definition of drink that's roughly equivalent to one light beer or one shot

It’s not like I suddenly break down or something. There are a few factors in my sport. BJJ is mostly cardio so I sweat a lot. I train at or close to my limits most of the time. Recovery isn’t as easy at 41. Alcohol depletes just enough from my body and impedes recovery just enough that the next day, I won’t be 100%, and I’ll feel it. Even one drink in the evening is massively disruptive to sleep processes like REM sl…

You might be overtraining. When I trained in BJJ and also tried to weight train as well as cardio I felt the difference between drinking or not. But that largely went away when I stopped trying to do so much. Other health markers improved as well (sleep, RHR, etc.)

Just a thought if you're noticing a single drink that much.

Re: America has a drinking problem

#473

Post by kodah » Wed, Jun 02, 2021, 1:56 AM UTC

Giving up drinking was one of the defining moments of my life. My job got better, my relationships got better, my mental health got better, and I lived more life. Nothing's perfect, but by far better than when alcohol compounded my existing issues.

Re: America has a drinking problem

#474

Post by machello13 » Wed, Jun 02, 2021, 1:58 AM UTC

TameAntelope wrote: post #261

I'm going to generalize, but the US is more diverse (rank #90 vs #151 for Germany, #169 for France, #111 for Croatia [0]) and we also have a very painful past and present that makes us acutely aware of our inability to socialize. America also has a cultural obsession with self-reliance/liberty/frontier-as-a-virtue which makes "socializing" a bit of a taboo concept, in a weird way. It's a crutch to "need" to be around…

Oh boy I love to read pop psychology on Hacker News. Please continue!

Re: America has a drinking problem

#475

Post by 6foot4_82iq » Wed, Jun 02, 2021, 2:02 AM UTC

Phillipharryt wrote: post #465

Sophistifunk wrote: post #423

People have the cause and effect backwards in my opinion. You know why "binge drinking" isn't a problem in Germany, except for when the Australians turn up for Oktoberfest? It's because you can just buy a beer on the side of the road with your currywurst, and drink it without being hassled. If you act up, you get arrested for acting up. Try openly having a few beers in the park in Australia or the US, you'll be run o…

Australia allows drinking in parks unless it's a designated no-drinking area (usually any area outside an alcohol store). That being said different states in Aus handle alcohol differently and some are very strict. The major states of NSW and Vic are pretty chill though.

In Australia, all alcohol (yes, even beer and wine) can only be bought at designated liquor stores. The vast majority of which are only open 10AM~10PM, with a handful in Sydney and Melbourne open after midnight.

Further, public drinking is all but restricted to destitutes outside of NYE and Aus day.

Contrast that with Germany. Every two blocks there's a Späti, many open 20–24h daily, each selling beer, wine, and spirits, at all hours of the day. You'll find hordes drinking in the streets, parks, and riversides anytime weather permits. It isn't unusual to see people sharing a beer on the U-bahn on the way to the work.

One culture demonises (although indulges in) alcohol, the other embraces it.

Re: America has a drinking problem

#476

Post by agogdog » Wed, Jun 02, 2021, 2:05 AM UTC

jmcdl wrote: post #295

maya24 wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alcohol is a harmful drug much worse than some of the other banned drugs on the market.

This is a common refrain but at the same time it seems to be the one substance commonly used across most of the world since ancient times. None of the other supposedly less harmful, banned drugs are so ubiquitous. Perhaps there's a good reason for this (besides varying availability of other substances)?

They were drinking beer and wine most of the time, and often much weaker than our modern beer and wine.

Hard liquor is a big part of the problem, but social life in America is a total disaster and overshadows everything else.

Re: America has a drinking problem

#477

Post by 6foot4_82iq » Wed, Jun 02, 2021, 2:08 AM UTC

bradleyjg wrote: post #389

notdeadofdrink wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in the top decile of that posted chart. Some weeks I'll be higher, some weeks I'll be lower. Usually lower, but always above the ninth. Posting on a throwaway for what should be pretty obvious reasons. In the past week I've had about three bottles of gin in various cocktails, assorted craft beers of the IPA or imperial stout variety, a couple of whiskeys, and an aperitif most days. I've been drinking mostly while…

I appreciate the response. Mostly I hate throwaways but this is an appropriate use. As I’ve gotten older (I’m 40ish) hangovers have gotten worse and worse. It’s now to the point if I have 4-5 medium beers on Friday night I can write off Saturday. Has your subjective experience of hangovers gotten easier over time?

If you drink 4-5 medium beers everyday, you'd need to drink at least 10 to induce a hangover.

Re: America has a drinking problem

#478

Post by brandonmenc » Wed, Jun 02, 2021, 2:10 AM UTC

Barrin92 wrote: post #135

Article mirrors my experience. For context I'm German, my wife's French and we've got family in Croatia who own a vineyard so I'm used to being around alcohol and people drinking. My first impression when I spent time was in the US was indeed how bipolar drinking is compared to Europe. We probably drink a hell of a lot more in raw terms than the average American does.Two glasses of wine for dinner, another one in the…

> My first impression when I spent time was in the US was indeed how bipolar drinking is compared to Europe.

There are two possible relationships a person can have with alcohol - it is either primarily a food, or primarily a drug.

Americans have a hard time treating it as food, although thankfully that seems to be changing.

Re: America has a drinking problem

#479

Post by nick__m » Wed, Jun 02, 2021, 2:13 AM UTC

nszceta wrote: post #406

nick__m wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's somewhat more subtle, pure medical grade methamphetamine (desoxyn) taken orally is theoretically the best ADD medicine available but it's almost never prescribed for political reasons. Meth has lot less sympathetic side effects than dextroamphetamine per unit of dopaminergic stimulation, this simple difference enables abuser to consume ridiculously large dose and those high doses are destructive. https://astralc…

Amphetamine-like drugs are used as pills or capsules, powder, or fluid, and can be ingested orally, smoked, insufflated, or injected intravenously. They cause euphoria but tolerance develops rapidly. Clinically evident effects of the two drugs are nearly indistinguishable, but methamphetamine appears to be a more potent stimulant. Amphetamine and methamphetamine induce euphoria, increased energy, alertness and libido…

Yes, the dose makes the poison and yes medicl amphetamines are sometimes abused but the literature you cited¹ isn't really about the medical use of amphetamines. Those papers are about the abuse of amphetamines.

From my experience with Vyvanse I find that amphetamines have a dose response function with linear and exponential steps. 15mg is barely perceptible, 30mg is like a coffee without the anxiety but it last 8 hours. 45mg is like 30mg but a little longer. 60mg in 2 doses (first pill at 7am and next one at 9am) is a perfect treatment against my ADD. Once I tried 90mg and it was terrible, I experienced bruxism, anxiety and hyperacidity for 18 hours. I am sure that I would develop the problems you listed if I were to take 90mg a day but 90mg of Vyvanse is supratherapeutic...

1: Link 41 is about abuse (supratherapeutic and frequent doses). Link 43 I can't comment as I don't have acces but it's an old paper from 1988... Link 45 is about abuse again. Link 46 is about accidental ingestion by a baby. (a therapeutic dose for a teenager is clearly supratherapeutic in a 8months infant) Link 47 is probably about abuse (the abstract talk of reversible consequences of dose escalation) but I don't have acces to the paper.

Re: America has a drinking problem

#480

Post by Zancarius » Wed, Jun 02, 2021, 2:17 AM UTC

AussieWog93 wrote: post #437

monkeynotes wrote: post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Brit I was pretty shocked to arrive in Australia and see that binge drinking there is next level. The Melbourne Cup horse races is like a national drinking day, my employer took everyone out to get wasted (this was in Sydney, didn't even watch the races) and then it was understood that you'd probably take the next day off.

When I read your story, as an Aussie, I felt really proud that we'd "beaten" the Brits at getting pissed. Perhaps this is part of the problem.

My mother's Australian, and as a (partial) joke to rib some relatives of mine (I was born in the US; father is American), I used to sing this parody:

99 bottles of beer on the wall

99 bottles of beer

If you're an Aussie you'll drink them all down

99 bottles of beer on the ground

Not only is it a faster version of the song, I hadn't internalized quite how true it was. lol