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Will Linux phones stay around this time?

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Re: Will Linux phones stay around this time?

#471

Post by fsflover »

jokoon wrote: post #458
fsflover wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but it's still open source Tell that to Termux: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25644964 . > reinventing a whole mobile OS There is no reason to reinvent an OS. You can use desktop GNU/Linux on modern phones. You only need to tweak the UI (see Phosh). You will also have full computer in your pocket and ability to connect it to a screen and use all Linux apps.

> There is no reason to reinvent an OS. Android is an awesome OS. I really don't see a good reason to reinvent one, seen the progress made by android. > You can use desktop GNU/Linux on modern phones. Yeah but no. A mobile OS is much more usable on a smartphone than a desktop one.

>A mobile OS is much more usable on a smartphone than a desktop one.

The point is that there should be no difference between "mobile" and "desktop". Mobile devices are capable of (almost) everything desktop does. Just connect a screen with keyboard and you have a "desktop". Now, you have thousands of apps already written for GNU/Linux.

https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Freque...

Can you achieve this on Android?

Re: Will Linux phones stay around this time?

#472

Post by fsflover »

ziml77 wrote: post #75
Krisjohn wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's so cheap, just get one.

The environmental impact of buying something they'll toy around with for 5 minutes and never touch again isn't cheap.

The environmental impact of having no alternative to the duopoly is much larger.

Re: Will Linux phones stay around this time?

#473

Post by zepto »

bregma wrote: post #292

I spent years working on the Ubuntu phone. It was a fully convergent device: by default it would present a phone UI, but plugin an a keyboard and screen and it presents a full desktop UI. The UI was designed by a team of brilliant professional designers and it was a technical success. Why isn't it around any more? (1) The carriers. Many people get a free or heavily subsidized phone from their carrier, who makes money…

This comment is predicated on a lack of differentiation between a Linux phone and Android/iOS.

‘It runs Linux’ is not sufficient differentiation for people to be interested outside of hobbyists and highly specified niches.

If we can change that, then a low end disruption strategy could work.

Unfortunately the work on Linux desktops and phones mostly seems to be about making an iOS-alike experience.

Re: Will Linux phones stay around this time?

#474

Post by hasmanean »

BeFlatXIII wrote: post #369
hasmanean wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One more thing: some people have no eye for aesthetics. I’ve seen (smart) people defend a piece of code, and when I show them a refactored version, they say “that’s literally the exact same thing I wrote.” No it’s not, and yes it is, in the sense that’s a^2 + 2ab + c^2 is not the same thing as (a+b)^2, but they (should and ideally must) evaluate to the same thing. I say ideally because only in the case of using infin…

Was the use of c^2 intentional?

Lol no.

Re: Will Linux phones stay around this time?

#475

Post by teddyfrozevelt »

craftinator wrote: post #470
teddyfrozevelt wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People really still post this?

I actually hadn't seen this before. What's the counter argument to the security problems that that website points out?

https://theevilskeleton.frama.io/2021/02/11/response-to-flat...

Re: Will Linux phones stay around this time?

#476

Post by jokoon »

fsflover wrote: post #471
jokoon wrote: post #458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is no reason to reinvent an OS. Android is an awesome OS. I really don't see a good reason to reinvent one, seen the progress made by android. > You can use desktop GNU/Linux on modern phones. Yeah but no. A mobile OS is much more usable on a smartphone than a desktop one.

>A mobile OS is much more usable on a smartphone than a desktop one. The point is that there should be no difference between "mobile" and "desktop". Mobile devices are capable of (almost) everything desktop does. Just connect a screen with keyboard and you have a "desktop". Now, you have thousands of apps already written for GNU/Linux. https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Freque... Can you achieve th…

What matters is the interface and UI, and the power usage. The android SDK is designed so that app developers have constraints that reduce power usage.

I agree that users should have more power over their hardware, but it would be at the risk of non power users letting malware infecting their device.

But I really disagree that desktop and mobile are similar.

Saving energy on a lithium battery requires more than just better batteries, it also requires developers to make apps that are very lightweight in energy, and that's why android is how it is, to prevent developers to release apps that drains battery and ruins the android experience and the brand.

And what would be the point of having linux apps on a mobile device? That doesn't really matters for users, it's the same problem with linux desktop and the quality of FOSS. What matters is having an OS where users can do what they want, but it's more complicated on android because... batteries.

Also, security is though problem that is solved with the google play service. Yes, it's centralized and users cannot do what they want, but the upside is security.

Re: Will Linux phones stay around this time?

#477

Post by aidenn0 »

ryukafalz wrote: post #72
aidenn0 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Re: jabber https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0352.html

Client state indication helps for things like suppressing presence updates, but it doesn't go as far as to e.g. let you only be notified for messages that would highlight you in a large MUC, right? So either you're joined to the MUC and receive all messages in it, or you leave the MUC and don't get notified about any of them. Although now that I read the spec again, it seems general enough that maybe it could be used…

Prosody has an option for filtering MUC messages with mod_csi_battery_saver (which is the currently recommended community module for CSI), I don't think ejabberd does though.

> groupchat messages must set a subject or have the user’s username or nickname mentioned in the messages (or be encrypted) to count as “important”.

Re: Will Linux phones stay around this time?

#478

Post by salawat »

ex_amazon_sde wrote: post #344
colordrops wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, Android is mature and secure, but it's not private . No one seems to talk about this much, but there are a few Android "features" that had to be designed by sociopaths. The main one for me is the complete lack of control of network traffic. Other than a VPN loopback app, which is pretty janky, there is no way to disable network traffic per app. Even with a VPN loopback, there is no way to only allow network traf…

> Android is mature and secure, but it's not private Nitpick: you cannot have security-but-not-privacy. If a system does not protect the confidentiality of your data from the eyes of the manufacturer it is breaching security. Security is much more than being protected from attacks. A torch application that reads your contact list and location fits squarely into the definition of trojan/spyware/malware.

Further nitpick: >Secure from whom?

The only person who seems to benefit from the way the security model works on Android is App Developers/carriers/manufacturers/Google. The user abstraction on an Android device doesn't even line up with a human user of the device, but rather it lines up with applications and software on the phone. I have seen nothing that more obviously tuned fpr turnimg a general computing device into a passive scripted experience regurgitator than Android.

You do not get the ability to organize arbitrary data. You need an app. You don't have a consistent experience of a filesystem, shared across all programs. Instead, you have a myriad of apps that do everything they can to hide the implementation details from you.

This does not "help" computer literacy to be most people's first encounter with a computer.

Re: Will Linux phones stay around this time?

#480

Post by sunsipples »

fsflover wrote: post #354
sunsipples wrote: post #233

All I want is a proper modular phone that can run linux. I dont need camera, happy with a fat phone for battery space, etc. please let it happen one day.

https://puri.sm/products/librem-5 .

now i just need to live in EU and I'm set
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