Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

annehelen.substack.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

471–480 of 1001 posts

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#471

Post by sbierwagen »

jschveibinz wrote: post #2

This article unfortunately doesn't address the business side of the problem. Fast food restaurants, or place like "Dale's" mentioned in the article, make very little profit. It is most likely below 10%. Here is an estimate: https://www.restaurant365.com/blog/what-is-the-average-profi... . A 10% profit is very modest. That's not the story of the "fat cats getting rich on the back of the workers" that the article is al…

>With such a small profit margin, arbitrarily raising everyone's wages is likely going to kill the business.

There are maybe ten lunch places within walking distance of my (suburban) office.

The variety is nice, certainly. I like having a bunch of options. I don't think it would destroy society if I only had half the choices, though.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#472

Post by hooande »

People say "If a business can't afford to pay a living wage, then they should close". But won't that hurt consumers and distort the market?

Personally, I like having many options for food to eat. If all the marginal small businesses had to close because they can't pay someone $15/hr to wipe tables, then we might just be left with large chains like Olive Garden or Cheesecake Factory. I think people should get paid what they are worth, whatever the job. But I also like being able to get food from small restaurants from different cultures.

And if all the marginal restaurants close, won't that just give more power to the larger corporations? they'll be able to raise prices, lower wages, whatever they want because there will be less competition.

Obviously, the unemployment increase / stimulus in the US will end at some point. And then there will be a lot of people looking for jobs at once. People should figure out what they think a fair wage is for entry level jobs and take it if it's being offered.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#473

Post by frankbreetz »

ramshorns wrote: post #448
zizee wrote: post #382

Honest question: why do discussions about minimum wage in the U.S. never propose having teenagers having a different minimum to adults? In australia we have a $12.50/hr minimum for 15 year olds. It climbs in increments until about $25/hr. This system allows teenagers to get a foot in the door for low-skilled jobs, and allows adults to get paid a livable wage. The result is that a lot of fast food jobs are performed b…

Paying poverty wages is wrong, and child labour is wrong. They don't cancel each other out.

Is a 15-18 year old working fast food child labor?

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#474

Post by angmarsbane »

bradleyjg wrote: post #405
zizee wrote: post #382

Honest question: why do discussions about minimum wage in the U.S. never propose having teenagers having a different minimum to adults? In australia we have a $12.50/hr minimum for 15 year olds. It climbs in increments until about $25/hr. This system allows teenagers to get a foot in the door for low-skilled jobs, and allows adults to get paid a livable wage. The result is that a lot of fast food jobs are performed b…

One concern is that this makes teenage employees relatively more attractive and so increases the adult unemployment rate above what it would be with a uniform minimum wage.

I had this concern until I realized teenagers have to go to school so there’s a huge chunk of the day that they cannot work. Adults have to take those shifts.

This realization also led me to determine that these jobs aren’t purely for teenagers despite hearing all my life burger-flipping was for teens.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#475

Post by kjksf »

dogman144 wrote: post #439
atoav wrote: post #423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see it. McDonalds pays minimum wages in most european nations, yet their menu isnt that much more expensive than in the US. Maybe they have a slimmer margin over here, but they are still profitable. That implies that the model is (in principle) just alright, but there are financial flows that will have to change in the US. Of course you don't like to pay more for the labor you use to generate profit — ideally…

Well, without knowing how the Corp is setup, that’s a bad example as this could easily exist: an international company can very easily be paying for high wages in one nation (ie loss leading) by low wages in another. Or staying profitable and with open doors. And so on. Unless you’ve done an FSA class and you can explain me your thinking more, it’s worth appreciating there are a ton of levers that impact Corp finance…

It makes zero sense for McDonalds (or Starbucks or anyone else) to operate a money loosing restaurant.

Furthermore, 82% of McDonald restaurants are franchises i.e. not owned by McDonald. https://www.fool.com/investing/general/2016/04/03/what-perce...

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#476

Post by kukx »

rbg246 wrote: post #434
kukx wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please, define what is a poverty wage, it is important. How much stuff one should afford to avoid being called poor. What is the change of the model in case of the restaurant? I can see only one, automate the jobs away to reduce the costs, namely replace humans with robots. But, if we consider these crappy jobs, what about people that are not qualified/able to do any more advanced jobs? People have vastly different c…

There are definitions and I believe another commenter in this thread has defined it very solidly about poverty. There will always be service sector jobs, this is the argument luddites were having in 1815 (I don't want to get into this as it is distracting from my main point). We should be ensuring that anyone putting in 40 hours a week should be able to support a family. The wealth is there to be able to create this…

What does it mean to support a family? Is getting them sheltered, clothed and well fed good enough? I think it is way easier to achieve today than in almost any other time in a human history, even for the low earners.

Restaurants are a part of the service sector. A service job does not imply that it is attractive. And they differ in requirements. The well paid ones get more and more complicated and hence, proportionally to the whole population, less and less people will be able to qualify for them.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#477

Post by fallingknife »

jschveibinz wrote: post #2

This article unfortunately doesn't address the business side of the problem. Fast food restaurants, or place like "Dale's" mentioned in the article, make very little profit. It is most likely below 10%. Here is an estimate: https://www.restaurant365.com/blog/what-is-the-average-profi... . A 10% profit is very modest. That's not the story of the "fat cats getting rich on the back of the workers" that the article is al…

You do know that businesses can also raise prices, right?

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#478

Post by angmarsbane »

jschveibinz wrote: post #2

This article unfortunately doesn't address the business side of the problem. Fast food restaurants, or place like "Dale's" mentioned in the article, make very little profit. It is most likely below 10%. Here is an estimate: https://www.restaurant365.com/blog/what-is-the-average-profi... . A 10% profit is very modest. That's not the story of the "fat cats getting rich on the back of the workers" that the article is al…

If businesses didn’t have to pay for health plans, would that free up enough to pay higher wages?

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#479

Post by conanbatt »

8note wrote: post #454
conanbatt wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a business closes, lots of people lose employment + business owners become more employment competition. Increasing unemployment wrecks wages. It is also not free to give unemployment benefits, it requires higher taxation which moves the sustainability bar higher and more businesses close, etc etc.

This really just raises the question on why employees don't get a share of profits. They take on all the same risk as owners do

It's certainly not the same risk. If a business goes bust the owners lose capital, the employees lose opportunity cost at worst.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#480

Post by [deleted] »

dogman144 wrote: post #439
atoav wrote: post #423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see it. McDonalds pays minimum wages in most european nations, yet their menu isnt that much more expensive than in the US. Maybe they have a slimmer margin over here, but they are still profitable. That implies that the model is (in principle) just alright, but there are financial flows that will have to change in the US. Of course you don't like to pay more for the labor you use to generate profit — ideally…

Well, without knowing how the Corp is setup, that’s a bad example as this could easily exist: an international company can very easily be paying for high wages in one nation (ie loss leading) by low wages in another. Or staying profitable and with open doors. And so on. Unless you’ve done an FSA class and you can explain me your thinking more, it’s worth appreciating there are a ton of levers that impact Corp finance…

[deleted]
Post reply on HN