Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work • Hacker News Board

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#471

Post by betterunix2 » Thu, Apr 01, 2021, 1:12 PM UTC

kristianc wrote: post #456

What surprises me about this whole discourse is how quickly the narrative has been rewritten. Read any article from the likes of HBR from 2019 and it's apparent that much, much research shows that offices, and open offices in particular are toxic for productivity - and that the 'water cooler' collaboration effect has been vastly overstated. Sometimes in an open office you could go several hours without getting anythi…

Maybe everyone working from home has been even worse for productivity than open offices. I know my own productivity has suffered, and I know I am not an outlier. People with toddlers in their home face constant interruptions (daycare has become unreliable -- one positive COVID test can shut a daycare down for two weeks), many people have limited space for a home office and nowhere to put a proper desk, etc. My own team frequently used whiteboards when we were at the office and touchscreens (of whatever size) really are not the same.

I know WFH has been fine, even positive, for some people. For a lot of us it has been a disaster and it seems that Google determined that it is a net negative.

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#472

Post by BreakfastLover » Thu, Apr 01, 2021, 1:12 PM UTC

aspaceman wrote: post #350

BreakfastLover wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The union is probably the reason. Pretty hard to have a strong united culture when everybody is at home reading the NYT about how Google is evil. It's easier to think of Google as good when you face your coworkers, but when they are behind avatars and just text, it's easier to fall for the propaganda of the NYT et.al

I really don’t understand this argument. The reason Google is bringing people back is to have a united culture, which they need because the NYT is naughty? Not following here.

I exaggerated with the union comment, but my point was that Google is now having a very divided workforce and having them work remotely is not going to help, especially when the outside world they read (e.g. NYT) is all about blaming Big Tech for everything.

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#473

Post by gipp » Thu, Apr 01, 2021, 1:13 PM UTC

alexgmcm wrote: post #236

darawk wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you considered the possibility that executives in charge of tens of thousands of developers might have some data you don't regarding its impacts on productivity in aggregate?

If they do then why don't they share it? I mean they must realise this is a pretty unpopular decision so why not share their justification. Otherwise it's just an appeal to authority - "Ours not to reason why.."

It's not "pretty unpopular", a large majority of employees strongly want to come back to the office at least part time. And this headline is ridiculously misleading, they committed to letting people work remotely till September ages ago, and that hasn't changed. The only thing that happened was they finally put a timeline on when people can come back voluntarily.

And there is quite a bit of data on it, most of which is widely shared internally.

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#474

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Apr 01, 2021, 1:13 PM UTC

mewse wrote: post #208

izacus wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how many people's opinions will change after a longer time. I wrote the exact same type of posts five years ago when I started my first fully remote job. After two years or so I had to look for an office because the isolation is just murderous and it takes a long amount of time to actually start showing its teeth.

I can highly recommend renting a co-working space once that's a viable option wherever you are in the world. These can be surprisingly inexpensive and often come with internet, electricity, etc. included. Gives both the "short commute" benefit of work-from-home, as well as the "maintaining a clear separation between home and work" benefit of on-location-work. And for me personally (as an introvert), it was fantastic…

[deleted]

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#475

Post by rorykoehler » Thu, Apr 01, 2021, 1:14 PM UTC

betterunix2 wrote: post #445

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This chestnut 'home has too many distractions' line is getting old. Work has equivalent distractions, and those people actually get paid to distract you. It takes time management wherever you sit your butt.

Get back to me when a two year old pees on the cables under your desk at your office.

I’ve got a 2 year old and I put the cables on the desk so he can’t reach them

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#476

Post by akhilcacharya » Thu, Apr 01, 2021, 1:15 PM UTC

Another article about Amazon doing the same https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26650430

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#477

Post by kyrra » Thu, Apr 01, 2021, 1:15 PM UTC

ohthehugemanate wrote: post #199

Just in case you were operating under the illusion that tech giants are run by forward thinking executives who are immune to the usual politics and problems of corporate life. Nope, most of their exec layer is a bunch of people who cut their teeth the industry in the 90's, and are operating within a thick fog of local workplace politics. I guarantee that behind this move is an executive who believes that developers n…

Googler opinions are my own.

I'd disagree at least a little here. Google has been surveying their staff about what they want to do after the pandemic is over, see this twitter thread where Google published some of it's data: https://mobile.twitter.com/lifeatgoogle/status/1308529118531...

People are split on what they want. Maybe people could be better trained to wfh, but some of us just prefer an office. While I am likely more productive at home (even with 3 kids there) I see that knowledge sharing with a large team is just harder (missing that hallway conversation, or seeing someone at a whiteboard and just learning random things).

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#478

Post by benhurmarcel » Thu, Apr 01, 2021, 1:17 PM UTC

xgeua wrote: post #143

If the employees of these companies want a remote life after the experience of this past year, they'll leave the company. If the companies are experiencing enough loss they may reconsider their remote stance. I think it's unlikely though. More likely than not some employees will leave and the company will hire new employees that don't want to work remote.

> that don't want to work remote

Or most likely, employees who will accept to commute for the salary that Google offers.

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#479

Post by mgkimsal » Thu, Apr 01, 2021, 1:18 PM UTC

mech422 wrote: post #119

mgkimsal wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For some people, yes. For others, no. I've been 'remote' for... 12 years now, but do travel to offices sometimes, and do enjoy being able to do some face to face time with folks, even sometimes for multiple days or weeks at a stretch. The core matter is who decides when I need to be in an office. If it's me or mostly me, it's great. If it's solely at the discretion of others, that's where problems often are (regardle…

Personally, I'm over 20 years WFH now and love it. The last 5 years have been working with people on other continents, and I actually had the choice of time zones to work (I usually work nights for this, as I'm a night owl and it lets me sleep during day time when Arizona summers get hot). I haven't had any of the issues people seem to encounter. I don't work to socialize, so I don't miss lunches and such. For progra…

> In-office to WFH is a spectrum - just pick the spot your comfortable on it.

Yep. It's the autonomy part that is the problem in nearly all cases. Choosing your own spot on that spectrum is the key part. And your spot may have to change over time, based on other parts of your life. Being forced to spot X is where all the contention comes in, it seems.

I did miss occasional lunches, dinners, break room chats with folks, but now run a coworking spot in town. I have most of the socialization aspects I missed, without them being tied to work (no office politics with these folks, just... socialization).

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#480

Post by ubermonkey » Thu, Apr 01, 2021, 1:21 PM UTC

lkramer wrote: post #267

ohthehugemanate wrote: post #199

Just in case you were operating under the illusion that tech giants are run by forward thinking executives who are immune to the usual politics and problems of corporate life. Nope, most of their exec layer is a bunch of people who cut their teeth the industry in the 90's, and are operating within a thick fog of local workplace politics. I guarantee that behind this move is an executive who believes that developers n…

One thing I have noticed is that while the old hats (those hired some time before the pandemic) are as productive, or maybe even more productive while working remote, it's a struggle to bring in new people, especially more junior people. Maybe these are problems that can be solved, but it seems that an already a challenging and stressful situation, joining a new company, is even more difficult when you are not able t…

"One thing I have noticed is that while the old hats (those hired some time before the pandemic) are as productive, or maybe even more productive while working remote, it's a struggle to bring in new people, especially more junior people."

My employer has always (started in 2007) been fully remote; we've never had office space ANYWHERE. It's a small team building a relatively niche product, and we're pretty successful, but what you say is true:

Getting new people up to speed is hard. And hiring "baby developers" is just not something we've done. All our hires are midcareer or later. I feel like a fresh dev needs the office environment to get traction early in their career, and we just can't provide that.