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Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board

reuters.com

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Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board

#471

Post by boublepop »

pmorici wrote: post #295

Calling this tweet "anti-union" seems like spin. It is pointing out facts that one might want to consider before deciding to unionize. The fact that employees lose stock options when they unionize isn't so much a threat as it is a fact about how unions work because historically unions are against any kind of incentive or merit pay so they refuse options as compensation. It is a fact that UAW hasn't negotiated options…

Weather unions would be anti stock option or not is debatable, certainly not a fact, and the tweet is absolutely clear cut a threat that workers would lose them if they unionized independent of what the union would do.

Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board

#472

Post by AlexandrB »

youeseh wrote: post #463
ryandrake wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You forget, with a union, the world's richest man might get richer every day at a slightly slower rate than he currently gets richer. That's the real horror!

What riches, exactly? Why the hate?

I'm not sure why people hate unions exactly. Seems weird to have "freedom of assembly" but then hate those that practice it for better negotiating leverage.

Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board

#473

Post by AlexandrB »

detaro wrote: post #434
1nverseMtx wrote: post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree. Close to zero progress in electrifying European produced cars. I would say unions are the cause for the delay resisting any change away from skills their members have, but obsoleted by electric cars with 1/10 the number of parts required.

On what evidence do you say that? The German auto unions have been saying for years that the switch to electric needs to be planned and managed exactly so the sector remains competitive and can employ people

Who needs evidence when you have ideology?

Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board

#474

Post by Gibbon1 »

mattkrause wrote: post #460
DeonPenny wrote: post #457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This part. People point to things like wealth inequality but not point to median incomes or employment rates, or marriage rates or birth rates. its extreme selection bias. If france was a country its median income with be comparable with alabama.

This is not a particularly useful statistic unless you include the varying levels of public services. I just did a similar analysis for a job in the US vs one in Canada. The actual salary in the US was much higher, but including healthcare expenses closed a lot of the gap. In some cases (e.g., chronic illness or young kids), the lower Canadian salary was a better "deal" overall.

Friend of mine moved to France from California. He said raising a kid in is way cheaper and less stressful in France.

Me I'm fully aware that I'm paying whats amounts to $900/month protection money in the form of health insurance. Protection money because really the co-payes I have to pay are close cost of actually providing medical goods and services.

Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board

#475

Post by pmiller2 »

Nimitz14 wrote: post #393
KaiserPro wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet, the level of inequity in france is nowhere near as much as USA. Sure there arn't as many mega rich, but then there arn't people hundreds of thousands of people being bankrupted by medical bills either.

The middle class is also much, much poorer.

So? How's their quality of life?

Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board

#476

Post by pmiller2 »

dunnevens wrote: post #344
aphextron wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, if you have $500 a month laying around no problem.

In many states right now, there are zero cost premiums for those who make within 200-250% of the Federal Poverty Line. Percentage varies between states, or sometimes even by counties. This was part of Biden's stimulus package and should help a lot of people.

Yes, and there are a lot of people trapped in the land of "can't afford the insurance, but also don't qualify for subsidies."

Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board

#477

Post by pmiller2 »

input_sh wrote: post #162
villgax wrote: post #85

people need to look at the AmazonNews twitter handle, spews corpo BS at every turn almost like some intern got hold of that account

To me it feels more like some executive on cocaine found out the Twitter password.

Sounds to me more like someone who thoroughly enjoys the taste of boot leather.

Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board

#478

Post by pmiller2 »

concordDance wrote: post #430
Jonnax wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.businessinsider.com/elizabeth-warren-amazon-twit... I've quote the tweets below. Warren has been campaigning to break up large tech companies. What is so unprofessional about that? Clearly if she was to try and get them fined or broken up it would be through these laws. She isn't silencing them. She's saying that there'll be consequences. And Amazon's PR isn't a small company. They can take the heat. I do…

The alarming thing is her thinking that power is required to be able to heckle senators. Anyone should be able to heckle senators on twittwr! From Mark Zuckerberg to the homeless man in the nearby park!

You're being obtuse. You know as well as anyone that it doesn't matter if the homeless man in the park heckles Senators. That's the difference; Amazon has real power behind their words.

Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board

#479

Post by codekansas »

upbeat_general wrote: post #187
bendbro wrote: post #163

[flagged]

I’d bet that most unions (in the US) don’t have professional certifications and tests. Most unions in the US are for low(er) skilled jobs. Collective bargaining is literally the whole point of a union (and essentially forms the definition of a union).

Like which jobs? Amazon, McDonalds, Walmart all are non-union. Major union professions are nurses, teachers, plumbers, steel workers, automotive workers, none of which are exactly low paid

I think a prerequisite for union to be successful is that it's members have leverage by withholding their collective labor, otherwise how to they negotiate?

Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board

#480

Post by danans »

Nimitz14 wrote: post #390
JBSmoove wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany's workforce in automotive and many other industries is HIGHLY unionized. I've never heard of these people being lazy, not wanting to work etc. In fact German engineering is the envy of the world! VW, Mercedes, BMW, Porsche all German engineered and manufactured by heavily unionized workforces! Sounds like your anecdotal bad experience with unions is not representative of reality. And FWIW I can list you just…

You know what they also all of in common? Zero innovation since decades. And German car engineering is mostly known for being overly complicated, I say that as a German.

>And German car engineering is mostly known for being overly complicated, I say that as a German

Being German doesn't give your statement credibility - you don't have to be German to drive or understand a German car.

If you said "as a German automotive engineer" then it might carry some weight, but only if also provided specifics.

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